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Millennial Socialism ?

I think the relative affluence of childhood plays a big part in Millennial attitudes to politics. I've noticed a stark trend among my 30-35 year old friends in that it's the ones who grew up in relatively wealthy white collar families in the 80s and 90s that are the most vocally frustrated and upset with their economic circumstances and the Tories. Whereas the folks who grew up in pit villages and council estates in the same period tend to be more sanguine and unimpressed with the current rhetoric.

It's perhaps over simplifying, but we have one group of Milllennials who have either had their economic circumstances improve or stay the same over the last 30 years and another group whose circumstances have declined relative to their parents.

This is, I think, a big factor in the internet culture war, Brexit and the utter jumble politics is in right now.
 
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Eh? Try going back and reading my first post again - the average child in a state school spends under 11% of their year in a school lesson (190 school days per year, 5 hours of lessons per day). To claim that millenial selfishness is due to 'brainwashing by teachers' and ignoring the effect of their family, friends and the internet on their outlook is simplistic in the extreme.

I also pointed out that when someone says they have a 'human right to water', that is in fact correct. The debate on the value of 'rights' is an entirely different thing.

Playing the numbers game. Okay.
For five days a week, a quarter of the children's day is in a somewhat disciplined environment and in the presence of someone telling them what to do and defining how they should think, and that person is a teacher. Parental influence, during the weekday, kicks in at 6pm(ish) if they are working for a living, and it is not in a disciplined teaching environment. Parental influence switches off after about three hours, when they go to bed to sleep.
You seem to think that the time in school has little influence. So who taught you to read, write, subtract, multiply....

No you do not have a right to water. No piece of legislation can give you that. If there is none you die. You, will probably die first, crying about how the state let you down by not legislating drought out of existence, or enforcing environmental laws on pollution and monopolisation by industry, but I will at least try to dig a well.
 

Yokel

LE
Millennial socialists see themselves as this...



We see them like this...


No, Rik was funny and meant well. Che Guevara was a murderer, rapist, and violently homophobic. Fortunately he is dead.

Anyway, if teachers brain wash kids, how come Generation Z is so conservative?
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
Interesting read. Cheers for that.

I’m not sure if I’m a millennial or not. I was born in 1985. I’m the weird inbetween generation where emails were just starting to become a thing when I was at school but Facebook and social media didn’t exist.

We still played outside but we did have computer games and a very limited form of internet.

For the entire time I’ve been old enough to understand politics, it’s been an absolute shit show. When I became old enough to vote, the Government under Tony Blair was illegally invading Iraq. A few years later we get the recession, tuition fees and now the Brexit Scheisse.

All this while house prices steadily rise. The prospects for us are pretty shit in comparison to our parents. Most people my age will never own a house.

My generation has never seen a government that isn’t a complete bunch of cnuts. Our trust in politicians is zero. We’ve come out of school into a world of shit that wasn’t our making. No one my age can remember a time when politicians did anything good.

Seriously name one great politician since 2000.

It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that people my age are looking at alternative and outlandish forms of government. The general consensus is that anything is better than what we’ve had. A change is needed and if beardy Corbyn is offering that change, no matter how idealistic, most of us will take it just because we’re ******* fed up.

Frankly most of us would relish a bit of chaos and pant shitting in Parliament. If Corbyn offers that then game on.

Personally I don’t feel like any of the parties represent me or my best interests. I think labour are idealistic bullshitters and the tories are completely ******* incompetent.
Kid, I have the same opinion, and was born in 1958!

Left education in 1976 because there were more people chasing fewer jobs.
Scraped a £600 deposit for a mortgage on a crappy house - the building society kept a load back until we made it habitable. Furniture donated by family or bought second hand.
Gradually got better jobs, better houses, bought a car then better cars, holidays every 2 to 4 years, saved and now less worried financially than ever, being retired on occupational pension and mortgage free with offspring off hands.

Never used State money or expected help from anyone. No expectation of achievement without my own efforts.

Grateful that I live in a warm house with indoor facilities, enough to eat, holidays, nice car and comfy life. Life is better than it was for my grandparents, similar to my parents.
 
No, Rik was funny and meant well. Che Guevara was a murderer, rapist, and violently homophobic. Fortunately he is dead.

Anyway, if teachers brain wash kids, how come Generation Z is so conservative?
I thought Generation Z were the ones created by the Umbrella Corporation????
 
Playing the numbers game. Okay.
For five days a week, a quarter of the children's day is in a somewhat disciplined environment and in the presence of someone telling them what to do and defining how they should think, and that person is a teacher. Parental influence, during the weekday, kicks in at 6pm(ish) if they are working for a living, and it is not in a disciplined teaching environment. Parental influence switches off after about three hours, when they go to bed to sleep.
It's not a numbers game, it's just the facts of the situation. If teachers could brainwash students they would. Maybe not so much in millenial metooism, hashtags and everything's so unfair but things like turning up on time, not being disruptive and actually learning. For some of them, just turning up to the exams or not sending nude pictures of themselves to others would be a start. Then there's the other half of the year when the kids are not in school...

Also, if you really think the vast majority of kids go to bed and sleep at 9pm and aren't on their phones/consoles/laptops you might need to reconsider that slightly.

You seem to think that the time in school has little influence. So who taught you to read, write, subtract, multiply....
All of those academic skills? Teachers. I must have missed the brainwashing lessons though ;)

The people that taught me to not be a little shit were parents. The data analysis would never be done or published (data protection concerns) but I would bet money that if you look at the students that are excluded from schools in the UK, if they have a sibling that child is more likely to be excluded too. Friends of an excluded student are more likely to be excluded as well. It's almost as if the boring old people at the front of a classroom don't have a massive impact on a child's attitude and behaviour.

No you do not have a right to water. No piece of legislation can give you that. If there is none you die. You, will probably die first, crying about how the state let you down by not legislating drought out of existence, or enforcing environmental laws on pollution and monopolisation by industry, but I will at least try to dig a well.
Maybe I wasn't clear. The point is not whether a 'human right' is enforceable in practice. Once it has been made law then that is a 'right' that applies to everyone. If you want to start another thread about what rights actually mean, go for it.
 
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Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Scraped a £600 deposit for a mortgage on a crappy house

In 1976 the average salary for blokes was 70 quid a week. So you your deposit was less than 10x the weekly salary.

Average weekly salary for a bloke now is 453 quid. (Just under 24k a year).

The average U.K. house price is 227 grand.

Just to afford a 10% deposit on an average house, my generation has to save 50x of their weekly salary.

And that’s before you consider the fact that most lenders will only give a maximum of 4x your annual salary.

So basically if you’re on an average salary in the U.K. you’ll be looking at a 90ish grand house maximum, which restricts you to a select handful of shit holes in the North of England.

Don’t even think about having kids cos you’re never getting more than 3 bedrooms.
 
D

Deleted 24582

Guest
In 1976 the average salary for blokes was 70 quid a week. So you your deposit was less than 10x the weekly salary.

Average weekly salary for a bloke now is 453 quid. (Just under 24k a year).

The average U.K. house price is 227 grand.

Just to afford a 10% deposit on an average house, my generation has to save 50x of their weekly salary.

And that’s before you consider the fact that most lenders will only give a maximum of 4x your annual salary.

So basically if you’re on an average salary in the U.K. you’ll be looking at a 90ish grand house maximum, which restricts you to a select handful of shit holes in the North of England.

Don’t even think about having kids cos you’re never getting more than 3 bedrooms.


Which is why VA home loans are a wonderful thing.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
In 1976 the average salary for blokes was 70 quid a week. So you your deposit was less than 10x the weekly salary.

Average weekly salary for a bloke now is 453 quid. (Just under 24k a year).

The average U.K. house price is 227 grand.

Just to afford a 10% deposit on an average house, my generation has to save 50x of their weekly salary.

And that’s before you consider the fact that most lenders will only give a maximum of 4x your annual salary.

So basically if you’re on an average salary in the U.K. you’ll be looking at a 90ish grand house maximum, which restricts you to a select handful of shit holes in the North of England.

Don’t even think about having kids cos you’re never getting more than 3 bedrooms.
A point I've made before - joint income of a secretary and an accounts clerk was £5,000, house cost £6,750. House bought in 1979 just before the GE. Mortgage payments went from £49 to £91 per month, which nearly crippled us.

Nowadays, joint income for those jobs would be £30,000 roughly. A cheap house would be more than 4x that.

Supply of housing has been prevented from keeping up with demand, and there is the root of the problem.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
In 1976 the average salary for blokes was 70 quid a week. So you your deposit was less than 10x the weekly salary.

Average weekly salary for a bloke now is 453 quid. (Just under 24k a year).

The average U.K. house price is 227 grand.

Just to afford a 10% deposit on an average house, my generation has to save 50x of their weekly salary.

And that’s before you consider the fact that most lenders will only give a maximum of 4x your annual salary.

So basically if you’re on an average salary in the U.K. you’ll be looking at a 90ish grand house maximum, which restricts you to a select handful of shit holes in the North of England.

Don’t even think about having kids cos you’re never getting more than 3 bedrooms.
I can sell you a nice two bedroomed flat for £190,000...
 

DaManBugs

LE
Book Reviewer
No you do not have a right to water. No piece of legislation can give you that. If there is none you die. You, will probably die first, crying about how the state let you down by not legislating drought out of existence, or enforcing environmental laws on pollution and monopolisation by industry, but I will at least try to dig a well.
No right to water? You might want to rethink that. In the UK water companies are forbidden from turning off the supply to consumers, no matter how much they owe. They can certainly pursue them in the courts, but not shut off their supply. There's a reason for that.

MsG
 
No right to water? You might want to rethink that. In the UK water companies are forbidden from turning off the supply to consumers, no matter how much they owe. They can certainly pursue them in the courts, but not shut off their supply. There's a reason for that.

MsG
And when there is no water you find out what everyone else already knew, that right is a meaningless promise, not an absolute guarantee.
 
I think the relative affluence of childhood plays a big part in Millennial attitudes to politics. I've noticed a stark trend among my 30-35 year old friends in that it's the ones who grew up in relatively wealthy white collar families in the 80s and 90s that are the most vocally frustrated and upset with their economic circumstances and the Tories. Whereas the folks who grew up in pit villages and council estates in the same period tend to be more sanguine and unimpressed with the current rhetoric.

Jordan Peterson made a point where he quoted George Orwell in "The road to Wigan Pier" about the middle class "not so much loving the poor as hating the rich"
 
Jordan Peterson made a point where he quoted George Orwell in "The road to Wigan Pier" about the middle class "not so much loving the poor as hating the rich"
Yeah and he's spot on in quoting Orwell on that.
I actually had it last weekend with my very PC, vegan, right on, cousin's husband and I had to press him whether it was more important to him to bash the rich or increase the amount of tax coming in? Because the two are mutually exclusive.
 
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