Military Training in MDHUs

#1
Apologies if this has been mentioned before. I have had experience of a certain south coast MDHU who give military medical staff absolutely no time to complete any ITDs, even BPFA/CFT let alone any other military courses to try and further career aspirations - and you may as well forget about adventurous training! To add insult to injury it's a constant battle to take off our full entitlement of annual leave, couldn't abandon the b***dy civvies could we??

Is this something that people are still struggling with at other MDHUs such as Frimley and Derriford which have now been established approx 10 years??

Are there any loop holes in the system?? Have other MDHUs now got this sorted and is this a classic example of being unable to learn from the experience of other MDHUs??

Would appreciate any advice.

If I wanted to work at the whim of the NHS then guess what ...... I'd have chosen to stay in civvy street working for the NHS!!

Rant Over

Pongo
 
#2
Pongo21 said:
Apologies if this has been mentioned before. I have had experience of a certain south coast MDHU who give military medical staff absolutely no time to complete any ITDs, even BPFA/CFT let alone any other military courses to try and further career aspirations - and you may as well forget about adventurous training! To add insult to injury it's a constant battle to take off our full entitlement of annual leave, couldn't abandon the b***dy civvies could we??

Is this something that people are still struggling with at other MDHUs such as Frimley and Derriford which have now been established approx 10 years??

Are there any loop holes in the system?? Have other MDHUs now got this sorted and is this a classic example of being unable to learn from the experience of other MDHUs??

Would appreciate any advice.

If I wanted to work at the whim of the NHS then guess what ...... I'd have chosen to stay in civvy street working for the NHS!!

Rant Over

Pongo
3 weeks of AT at Penhale last year, shared between MDHU's Frimley Park and Portsmouth. Requests to participate from MOs - nil. Maybe not what you wanted to do in terms of AT, but certainly available if you GOYA and participate. The ITD and fitness training is available, but for longer periods your deanery might be the stumbling block if you are in the medical training pipeline.
 
#3
Pongo21 said:
Would appreciate any advice.


Pongo
Speak to your friendly local South coast Military training "wing" they will be able to fix you up on a course speak to the grumpy DPM'd git in the corner of the office, he will help you fill out applications and make suggestions. You do however have a point its not that simple but worth a shot. In fact I believe they are gagging for folk to go on instructional courses NBC, RMQ , Map reading and the like.

ITD's are conducted Monthly, they are military days, you need to apply to aforementioned DPM fool and they are taken as military days which the NHS cannot deny you (operational requirement etc etc) Speak to boss Nursey if thats your hatbadge.

Adventure training, Common misbelief is that you have a 2 week entitlement. the rules actually go more like, The unit should have at least 33 % of its strength take at least 2 weeks AT a year. If you can blag 52 weeks then go for it speak to the Gym. Or as suggested wait out for the 3rd ! annual Pendragon exercise you know the one that people where encouraged to attend and was given priority by the Boss man. (2 MO's did apply but as they couldnt arrange locum cover they couldnt attend. Which is a crying shame !!! Though I think 2 Docs did attend )

Unfortunatley your hand will not be held and you have to drive these things yourself which no amount of moaning will fix (I know Ive tried) Still if you dont ask you dont get.
 
#4
gibson097 said:
(2 MO's did apply but as they couldnt arrange locum cover they couldnt attend. Which is a crying shame !!! Though I think 2 Docs did attend )
You've hit the nail on the head gibson, which you don't appear to understand languid doc. The compulsory military days concept works fine for nurses but MOs are counted by the NHS as part of the rota and there is no flexibility built in for military MOs to take time off above and beyond annual leave entitlement, whatever the reason!!

As gibson quite rightly insinuates to, the only solution to this is if the military are willing to pay for locums to cover MOs working in MDHUs, which I can assure you is like trying to get blood out of a stone.

This returns back to my original question, has anyone out there had a better experience trying to secure time off for military training?

In short, as another post on this forum suggests, MDHUs are s*it, avoid them if you can!!
 
#5
Perhaphs you should contact one of the WO1's at MDHU Northallerton as they seem to have an extensive programme for ITD's (MATT) and Adv Trg which works well and most of their staff seem happy and content ?

Maybe its the Comd Team at your location who need educating ?
 
#6
MDHU Frimley Park also has an extensive program of ITDs and adventure training for all ranks regardless of profession. The trg wing runs regular ITD days and range weeks and the units regt team system ensures that these are attended.
The CO has the MCD on side with this to ensure that MOs get out and do it as well.
The regt team days are well attended as this is included as military protected time within the contract with the host trust.

MDHUs are pants but were stuck with them.
 
#7
Pongo 21. You've perhaps moved on, but if not, the Training Team at Haslar awaits your call.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#8
In another thread I have suggested that the TA inf is the model for all arms soldier trg. MDHU pers should be doing at least as much mil trg a year as the TA - Things have obviously changed at FP since Mrs sknn left it if they are doing the prog that FF outlined above.
 
#9
sknn said:
In another thread I have suggested that the TA inf is the model for all arms soldier trg. MDHU pers should be doing at least as much mil trg a year as the TA - Things have obviously changed at FP since Mrs sknn left it if they are doing the prog that FF outlined above.
Dear oh Dear!!

You really have not got a clue.

To the readers on this thread i would ask you pop over to the training wing and have a look Sknn's suggestions as to make all us Non Teeth Arms better.

Ever heard the phrase "Ignorence breeds contempt"
 
#10
sknn said:
Things have obviously changed at FP since Mrs sknn left it if they are doing the prog that FF outlined above.
yes, amazing how things can what we call 'change' isnt it?
New CO and new 2i/c, new RSM, new trg officer, new and better contracts with the host trust containing trust protected time and military protected time and better direction from DMETA.

So if your missus left FPH before June 05 then yes things have changed.
 
#11
Truth is that training is much better organised at all sites than it may have been in the past. If individuals cannot access training, including AT, they should involve their command. Access is not as easy for junior docs, but they have to initiate the provision by request. It cannot be arranged as a matter of routine, due to their training cycle. If you have asked and it has not been provided, it's your Unit's fault. If you haven't asked the right people.....
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#12
FF, quite so, things change, but clearly this thread would never have started if they are perfect across the board. I'm not sure why my other thread in the traing wing provoked such an outburst from Red Arse, most of the other posters there found it positive.
 
#13
At least there is some training. Perfect it aint certainly not here and it has been and continues to be a major struggle. IMHO its it down to ignorance on behalf of many of the movers and shakers. Ignorance not in a slandorous context, if you dont know about something through a lack of experience then so be it. Could be vastly improved but that demands better communication and a realistic appreciation of requirements and unit capabilitys. Get the right people involved and your onto a winner. However like I said it should be driven at a command level but it isnt. Therefore either winge and moan about it or shoulder some of the burden, Carpe Diem and all that.
 
#14
ive heard that the 'regimental team' system in place at frimley park is a bag of testicles. lucky if 2 people attend when the team 'meets up'... i spoke to a number of other rank females and a few males and they all confirmed this.

i think you are biased mr fox, take off the rose tinted specs and look at facts and figures...
 
#15
June your quite right, troops moan about lack of Training/Ethos/opportunity/respect/smarties, So you generate just those things and what happens ??? They dont bloody bother, Go sick (that one really really pisses me off), plead ignorance or "I cant get off the ward"

So you get to a point of not actually bothering to jack anything up !

Having said that Reggie team thing has had some mild success Darn on the Sarf Coast
 
#16
junetheloon said:
ive heard that the 'regimental team' system in place at frimley park is a bag of testicles. lucky if 2 people attend when the team 'meets up'... i spoke to a number of other rank females and a few males and they all confirmed this.
not really the case, Regt team days are duties, unless they are on essential wd/dept duties, deployment training or leave then they turn up, if they dont turn up then they have AGAI 67 action taken against them, and believe me, no-one has been disciplined as yet for non-attendance.

I was totally against the whole Regt Team concept, but it does work, its hard work for those who have to write the CRs but it gets officers who would normally never write one to actually do them and seniors who wouldnt normally get involved have to give advice on the individuals.

There is a Team day on today, ITDs this morning and clay pigeon shooting this afternoon, I have just delivered the Security ITD and the classroom definately had more than 2 people in it, 18 in fact!

We had a Regt Team day competition in November and over 120 people, all ranks turned up for it.
209 in the unit, take away those deployed, on courses, leave and essential duties, 120+ is a large majority of the unit.

How many was the 'number' that you spoke to? 1? 2? Probably complaining that they had to get off their fat QA arrses to actually do something other than eat pies! Just a thought :roll:
 
#17
Regimental teams will only ever be as good as the people in them. Unfortunately there are too many people, who would normally be considered senior, who are just not motivated towards making their units perform better by supporting such developments. FF has obviously become a convert to the principle, so good for him. By all means slag it off if it doesn't work, but for goodness sake give it time and, when you see something not going well, do your bit towards making things better as well as venting your spleen June.
 
#18
I was involved in the implementation of the Regt Team and the Trg Wing on the south coast and privy to some of the "behind the scene chats". Let me just say this, and then have a think about it. Any positive action to enable military training and team cohesion to happen in any MDHU is a positive move, there are QA's out there that are all to quick to slate it because they are bothered about their time off. Trust me when i say that the standard of the JNCO within the AMS leaves alot to be desired.
 
#19
1shot1kill said:
I was involved in the implementation of the Regt Team and the Trg Wing on the south coast and privy to some of the "behind the scene chats". Let me just say this, and then have a think about it. Any positive action to enable military training and team cohesion to happen in any MDHU is a positive move, there are QA's out there that are all to quick to slate it because they are bothered about their time off. Trust me when i say that the standard of the JNCO within the AMS leaves alot to be desired.
very true, as do the seniors anf officers from what i've seen of them.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#20
There is nothing wrong with the AMS JNCOs on the whole, its the standard of training they recieve that lets them down.
 

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