Military Space Ops

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
Perhaps things have changed since last year or the Washington Post was inaccurate?

How China’s Huawei took the lead over U.S. companies in 5G technology
Trump wants to avoid business with Chinese tech firms, but no American company makes the same wireless equipment

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/04/10/us-spat-with-huawei-explained/

I believe some vendors manufacture in Mexico already, so they just need to come up with some designs for 5G kit.
The issue with Huawei and the US I would suggest is more economic that espionage. Read into Sub 6 and Millimetric 5G and you quickly get to the issues where the US fear the financial implications of China taking a lead in 5G That US companies couldn't compete with.
 
The issue with Huawei and the US I would suggest is more economic that espionage. Read into Sub 6 and Millimetric 5G and you quickly get to the issues where the US fear the financial implications of China taking a lead in 5G That US companies couldn't compete with.
Agreed. Espionage is still an issue though.
 
The issue with Huawei and the US I would suggest is more economic that espionage. Read into Sub 6 and Millimetric 5G and you quickly get to the issues where the US fear the financial implications of China taking a lead in 5G That US companies couldn't compete with.
No, it is a security issue. Hence the freak out on this side of the pond. The closeness with the UK is a liability, and I would imagine your government is going to find many new restrictions in place.

I would be inclined to agree if the UK was told to only buy American.
 
Agreed. Espionage is still an issue though.
I don't doubt that there are avenues by which Huawei's equipment can be used to gather intelligence and I do not condone it.

Nor do I doubt that Us companies like Cisco and UK companies like BT and other infrastructure companies do the same the world over


 
I don't doubt that there are avenues by which Huawei's equipment can be used to gather intelligence and I do not condone it.

Nor do I doubt that Us companies like Cisco and UK companies like BT and other infrastructure companies do the same the world over


Well I can say the US will be doing it's best to gather intelligence on the senior leadership of your government to see what the future plans are.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
Agreed. Espionage is still an issue though.
No different with any other supplier I would imagine. Interesting given all the effort NCSC puts in to examine all the source code in Huawei components in their (NCSC) UK lab, which leads me to suspect the position is very much more economic.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
No, it is a security issue. Hence the freak out on this side of the pond. The closeness with the UK is a liability, and I would imagine your government is going to find many new restrictions in place.
I don't doubt there are security concerns hence the NCSC (NSA equiv) decision to build a lab to open up all of the Huawei systems. There will be a minor wobble as politicians try to exert their influence and then it will all revert to business as usual as befitting a very long and very productive relationship, that is very much symbiotic.

NCSC decision explained

But, it is very much an economic argument also, security is just a convenient factor to trade around.

I would be inclined to agree if the UK was told to only buy American, manufactured by Crypto AG .
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
Think of it what you will, the decision by Johnson will have ramifications for years to come.
It's not me old bean it's the NCSC, who work daily with NSA. I suspect this has long been understood by those who needed to as the NCSC position will not have been taken overnight nor without an evidence base to work upon.
 
The costs are containable if allocated from HMT
This being the flaw in your cunning plan. HMT isn't going to pony up for anything when:

For the third successive year, the Equipment Plan remains unaffordable. The Department’s central estimate of equipment procurement and support costs is lower than last year, but this reflects a restatement of the affordability gap rather than actions to address the funding shortfalls. The Department has still not taken the necessary decisions to establish an affordable long-term investment programme to develop future military capabilities.

https://www.nao.org.uk/report/the-equipment-plan-2019-to-2029/?slide=1
 
This being the flaw in your cunning plan. HMT isn't going to pony up for anything when:

For the third successive year, the Equipment Plan remains unaffordable. The Department’s central estimate of equipment procurement and support costs is lower than last year, but this reflects a restatement of the affordability gap rather than actions to address the funding shortfalls. The Department has still not taken the necessary decisions to establish an affordable long-term investment programme to develop future military capabilities.

https://www.nao.org.uk/report/the-equipment-plan-2019-to-2029/?slide=1
Now, if you're able to convince Mr Cummings that his NASA worship should translate into him being a Dr No like figure in a secret UK program...
 
As someone who lives in China (HK) it is fair to say that China cannot be trusted.

However it would be naive of me to think that the USA can.
This conversation doesn't belong in this thread, so I will say this once and anyone who wants to carry on the conversation can take it over to the Huawei thread.

If you're relying on "trusting" a vendor because of what country their head office is located in, you're deluding yourself.

Are the Swiss trustworthy? A lot of countries thought so until it turned out that the leading Swiss company selling cryptography kit all over the world to loads of countries late last century was actually jointly owned by the CIA and German intelligence and the two had the cryptography kit back-doored and were reading everyone else's supposedly top secret diplomatic and military messages.

Oh yes, the Swiss were deemed to be "trustworthy" so everyone thought they should just "trust" the Swiss instead of verifying their kit. That worked out great.

In the computer security field "trusted" means something very specific but also different that it does in everyday conversation. A "trusted" party in this case means someone who can break your security. If you don't want your security to be broken, then don't trust anyone who is outside your control. In Canada all vendors must have their kit put under the security microscope before they are allowed to sell it, not just ones from China.

Nokia are reportedly in financial trouble and are looking to sell the company or to merge with someone else. God knows whose hands they may end up in, but one of the names that has been mentioned is ZTE, who are another Chinese telecoms company.

Now suppose you had built your entire network on Nokia because their headquarters was just outside Helsinki and your entire security strategy was based on the warm fuzzy feeling that you got from knowing that the Fins were fine fellows, just like the Swiss. What do you do then? Rip it all out and replace it with Ericsson kit because you get a warm fuzzy feeling from knowing that their headquarters is in Stockholm?

People need to use their brains for something other than a hat rack on this subject.

If anyone wants to continue on with this subject, take it over to a more appropriate thread and let me know and I will be happy to continue the conversation there.
 
This conversation doesn't belong in this thread, so I will say this once and anyone who wants to carry on the conversation can take it over to the Huawei thread.

If you're relying on "trusting" a vendor because of what country their head office is located in, you're deluding yourself.

Are the Swiss trustworthy? A lot of countries thought so until it turned out that the leading Swiss company selling cryptography kit all over the world to loads of countries late last century was actually jointly owned by the CIA and German intelligence and the two had the cryptography kit back-doored and were reading everyone else's supposedly top secret diplomatic and military messages.

Oh yes, the Swiss were deemed to be "trustworthy" so everyone thought they should just "trust" the Swiss instead of verifying their kit. That worked out great.

In the computer security field "trusted" means something very specific but also different that it does in everyday conversation. A "trusted" party in this case means someone who can break your security. If you don't want your security to be broken, then don't trust anyone who is outside your control. In Canada all vendors must have their kit put under the security microscope before they are allowed to sell it, not just ones from China.

Nokia are reportedly in financial trouble and are looking to sell the company or to merge with someone else. God knows whose hands they may end up in, but one of the names that has been mentioned is ZTE, who are another Chinese telecoms company.

Now suppose you had built your entire network on Nokia because their headquarters was just outside Helsinki and your entire security strategy was based on the warm fuzzy feeling that you got from knowing that the Fins were fine fellows, just like the Swiss. What do you do then? Rip it all out and replace it with Ericsson kit because you get a warm fuzzy feeling from knowing that their headquarters is in Stockholm?

People need to use their brains for something other than a hat rack on this subject.

If anyone wants to continue on with this subject, take it over to a more appropriate thread and let me know and I will be happy to continue the conversation there.
Do three stars count?
 
Do three stars count?
Three stars are utterly irrelevant. Who do I go to in the US to buy a 5G network? That's right....I can't. I can't because you don't have the chops. Maybe the ORAN initiative will re-create a US vendor industry, but at the moment, it is only happening with our money.
 
Three stars are utterly irrelevant. Who do I go to in the US to buy a 5G network? That's right....I can't. I can't because you don't have the chops. Maybe the ORAN initiative will re-create a US vendor industry, but at the moment, it is only happening with our money.

Here is a map for you. I have the Xbox connected to 5G, quite the leap forward.

The problem is that you folks will expect life to carry on like normal, when in fact you might find yourselves cut out of the loop.
 
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