military application of .22LR or similar sized calibres?

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by rogue_trader, Dec 24, 2010.

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  1. Has any arm of any nation ever used small calibres in the field?

    I am very surprised that .22 has never found its way into a suppressive fire role. Especially before the days of body armour and in urban warfare. Would you poke your head round the corner if hundreds of .22 rounds were splatting against walls and windowsills. .22 can kill or seriously hurt you for the fraction of the cost/weight/size requirements of .303/7.62/5.56 ammo. Although it would be no good as a main assault weapon or over long distances, a few automatic 500 round belt fed .22 per company in urban warfare environments would be a pain in the ass for suppressed enemy infantry.

    I would not be surprised if this had already tried this in the past? If not why not?
     
  2. squeekingsapper

    squeekingsapper LE Reviewer

    Considering the issue with the logitics of getting 5.56, 7.62, .5, .38 etc into theatre, you are taking the piss aren't you?.

    That's not even mentioning the poor sod that has to carry the extra gat on the ground, you mong.
     
  3. Elaborate for me as I dont get it. What difference in logisitics would be dependant on calibre? And I was thinking that maybe it would be a case of a support role dedicated to that weapon. Probably backed up with a sidearm.

    In any case I am not trying to argue for such a weapon, I just wondered if it had actually been tried in the past or ruled out for any reason. I had heard that armies had even experimented with airguns in the past.
     
  4. Through desperation, perhaps. ISTR something about the Chechens using it in FIBUA, scoped semi-auto 0.22 at close range. They were trading off target effect for ability to suppress firing sginature (improvised moderators). Or maybe it was the only gun the firer had. Who knows...

    Put it this way - at 100m, you should be able to group to the size of a throat. As ever, this is an unreliable memory of a completely unknown source, so feel free to ignore it.

    The Austrians had one in service for 35 years (the Girandoni - a 0.51 cal bullet at 1000fps is going to hurt) , if Wikipedia is to be believed... rather impressive, it had a 20-shot magazine and was accurate to 150 paces. In 1780. Cool...
     
  5. the isrealis have used it in crowd control situations

    if you see a stone throwing youth suddenly go down holding his leg then theres a chance hes been hit
     
  6. Heard of .22 being used as survival tool for downed aircrew,
     

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  7. Well from cadet shooting we put out 5-pence-peice groupings at 25m, but I should imagine that in combat at 100m your group size goes out of the window - imagine the size of those figure 12s and how many times you've missed them... 100m away from the enemy is not my idea of a fun place to be.

    I'd be surprised if there's never been an SMG chambered like that. With almost no recoil, a massive clip and very short ranges, that could be quite lethal.
     
  8. .22 silenced pistols ('Hush Puppies') were used by US SF in Vietnam, IIRC.
     
  9. The only military use I can remember for it was for the British DeLise silent carbine, although the IRA have used the rounds in weapons used against us.
     
  10. maguire

    maguire LE Book Reviewer

    The American-180 anyone? Modern Firearms - American-180

    'Significant numbers of American-180SMG's were purchased by police departments and prisons, mostly for riot control situations.'
     
  11. The De Lisle was actually produced in 45ACP. It used a modified Colt 1911 magazine. A few years ago there were some modern reproductions made, and I had the opportunity to try one - it certainly lived up to it's reputation of being one of the quietest weapons made.
     
  12. The interesting thing about that article is it says that the round was too lethal. This suggests that the round might have uses where you want to kill someone.
     
  13. Looks like the M-6 survival rifle. Actually an over-under .22/410 bore.



    I believe it was during the Viet Nam War "Carbine" Williams, designer of the .30 M-1 carbine, made a prototype .22 WMR electrically powered multi-barrelled mini-gun. I saw a film clip of this thing in action; it certain did cut tall grass and brush with ease but keeping it in ammo had to have been a bastard.
     
  14. During my service I saw several different .22RF weapons all with Silencers fitted.