Milan Babic tops himself.

#1
Former Croatian Serb leader Milan Babic has committed suicide in his prison cell in The Hague, the UN war crimes tribunal said on Monday.
Babic, 50, was serving a 13-year prison term for crimes against humanity, after admitting persecuting the non-Serb population in Croatia's Krajina region.

UN prosecutors regarded him as one of former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic's key allies.

He was found dead on Sunday evening, the tribunal said in a statement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4778498.stm
 
#4
"The Dutch authorities were called immediately. After conducting an investigation, they confirmed that the cause of death was suicide," the statement said.

It did not say how Babic had killed himself.

A tribunal judge has opened an inquiry.
So suicide is no more than initial allegation. We know only that mr.Babic was found dead in his cell. Is it possible that he was killed? Why not?

Let's look at the outcome. 250,000 Croatian Serbs from Kraina were expelled. No one has been sentenced for it yet. But Croatia is a candidate state in EU. In this context mr.Babic could be a very unpleasant witness.
 
#5
Another sad loss for humanity...

KGB_resident said:
So suicide is no more than initial allegation. We know only that mr.Babic was found dead in his cell. Is it possible that he was killed? Why not?

Let's look at the outcome. 250,000 Croatian Serbs from Kraina were expelled. No one has been sentenced for it yet. But Croatia is a candidate state in EU. In this context mr.Babic could be a very unpleasant witness.
Yawn.....Sergey, Sergey, Sergey, please tell me you don't suffer from this charming Russian trait of being pro-Serb? As for the expulsion of the Krajina Serbs, the Croat commander during Operation Storm is currently in custody in the Hague, having recently been captured on Spanish territory (and for what it's worth, if he decides to top himself I'll not shed any tears). Do you honestly believe that any supposed testimony of an indicted war criminal would have the slightest impact on Croatian admission to the EU? Actually, I've got it - those hard-nosed Dutch gave the nod to a hit squad from the Croatian Interior Ministry and they slipped poison into Babic's porridge...come off it Sergey!
 
#6
gallowglass said:
Another sad loss for humanity...

KGB_resident said:
So suicide is no more than initial allegation. We know only that mr.Babic was found dead in his cell. Is it possible that he was killed? Why not?

Let's look at the outcome. 250,000 Croatian Serbs from Kraina were expelled. No one has been sentenced for it yet. But Croatia is a candidate state in EU. In this context mr.Babic could be a very unpleasant witness.
Yawn.....Sergey, Sergey, Sergey, please tell me you don't suffer from this charming Russian trait of being pro-Serb? As for the expulsion of the Krajina Serbs, the Croat commander during Operation Storm is currently in custody in the Hague , having recently been captured on Spanish territory (and for what it's worth, if he decides to top himself I'll not shed any tears). Do you honestly believe that any supposed testimony of an indicted war criminal would have the slightest impact on Croatian admission to the EU? Actually, I've got it - those hard-nosed Dutch gave the nod to a hit squad from the Croatian Interior Ministry and they slipped poison into Babic's porridge...come off it Sergey!


I know about the Croatian. He was arrested quite recently and was not sentenced yet. I meant namely this.

As I understand there was a preliminary investigation. There are allegations (not estabilished fact). If the suicide has been 100% estableshed then why the tribunal launched own investigation?

Poison? Hear about it first time. How are you aware about the poison?
 
#7
Dutch news said that Dutch investigators had determined that it was suicide, but that the means by which this was carried out has not been made known yet.
 
#8
stoatman said:
Dutch news said that Dutch investigators had determined that it was suicide, but that the means by which this was carried out has not been made known yet.
But why? Maybe because 'evidences' of suicide are being forged now?

Mr. Babic wittnessed against mr.Milosevic. In return he (no doubt) was promised a symbolic sentence that appeared not symbolic at all. Mr. Babic is to take part in Milosevic;s process as a witness again. What could he say. Only God knows.

I wonder why all cell in Hague are not equipped with video-cameras? In this case attempts of suicides could be prevented and anyway it would be a material proof in such cases.
 
#9
The Charges
The Indictment charges Milan Babic on the basis of his individual criminal responsibility (Article 7(1) of the Statute) with:

one count of crimes against humanity (persecutions on political, racial, and religious grounds punishable under Articles 5 of the Statute of the Tribunal), and
four counts of violations of the laws or customs of war (murder; cruel treatment; wanton destruction of villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity; and destruction or wilful damage done to institutions dedicated to education or religion punishable under Articles 3 of the Statute of the Tribunal)

.Guilty plea

On 27 January 2004, Milan Babic entered a guilty plea on Count one of the Indictment, namely persecutions on political, racial and religious grounds as a crime against humanity (see Press Release No. 818). On 28 January 2004, the Trial Chamber accepted the Plea Agreement between the Prosecution and the Defence. It found Milan Babic guilty of persecutions as a crime against humanity and added that the crime of persecutions was committed within the objectives of the Joint Criminal Enterprise, of which Milan Babic was a co-perpetrator (see Press Release No. 819). The Prosecution recommended a sentence of no more than 11 years and the Defence made no specific recommendation.

Can we look forward to conspiracy theories a la Hess now ?
 
#10
KGB_resident said:
I know about the Croatian. He was arrested quite recently and was not sentenced yet. I meant namely this.

As I understand there was a preliminary investigation. There are allegations (not estabilished fact). If the suicide has been 100% estableshed then why the tribunal launched own investigation?

Poison? Hear about it first time. How are you aware about the poison?
What allegations do you mean? (and I note that you are well ahead of the pack in your allusions to evidence being forged)

As for my reference to poison in Babic's porridge - that was meant to be taken in jest :roll:
 
#11
PartTimePongo said:
Can we look forward to conspiracy theories a la Hess now ?
Why not?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4778498.stm

2002: Testifies against Slobodan Milosevic
2003: Surrenders to tribunal
2004: Pleads guilty to persecuting non-Serbs, sentenced to 13 years
2005: Loses appeal against sentence
Why he had testified against mr.Milosevic? Maybe he understood how he was wrong? How he was guilty? More probable version: he was promised a quick release after the sentence.

Babic feared retribution for testifying against Slobodan Milosevic in 2002, and had been had been serving his sentence at a secret location, at his own request.
So he feared a revenge. A man who is about to committ suicide as a rule doesn't fear it. Secret location of prison is a suspisious thing itself.

He was brought back to The Hague last month to testify in the trial of Milan Martic, his successor as Croatian Serb leader.
Likely mr.Babic decided to change his tune. He realised that he was fooled. His speech on the trial could be a true sensation.

As to the line of the defence in his case then mr.Babic probably believed that 11-13-17-25 year is not the main question. He could be told that he would be pardonned anyway.
 
#12
The death of Milan Babic is a serious set-back for the prosecution. He was a potential witness in several future trials, not only in the Martic case.
 
#13
No loss. Saves time.
 
#14
Being a resident of Holland with all their liberal views and namby pamby leftie over tolerant arty farty ways, I would suspect he was well treated, to death.
 
#15
Did I miss something? Was this announced on the national news? even in the press Daily Torygraph today - I'm sure I read through it this morning.

I agreee no loss to humanity but come on all the money and press airing and their minimal success rate should have at least made into the papers.

JJ
 
#16
KGB_resident said:
gallowglass said:
Another sad loss for humanity...

KGB_resident said:
So suicide is no more than initial allegation. We know only that mr.Babic was found dead in his cell. Is it possible that he was killed? Why not?

Let's look at the outcome. 250,000 Croatian Serbs from Kraina were expelled. No one has been sentenced for it yet. But Croatia is a candidate state in EU. In this context mr.Babic could be a very unpleasant witness.
Yawn.....Sergey, Sergey, Sergey, please tell me you don't suffer from this charming Russian trait of being pro-Serb? As for the expulsion of the Krajina Serbs, the Croat commander during Operation Storm is currently in custody in the Hague , having recently been captured on Spanish territory (and for what it's worth, if he decides to top himself I'll not shed any tears). Do you honestly believe that any supposed testimony of an indicted war criminal would have the slightest impact on Croatian admission to the EU? Actually, I've got it - those hard-nosed Dutch gave the nod to a hit squad from the Croatian Interior Ministry and they slipped poison into Babic's porridge...come off it Sergey!


I know about the Croatian. He was arrested quite recently and was not sentenced yet. I meant namely this.

As I understand there was a preliminary investigation. There are allegations (not estabilished fact). If the suicide has been 100% estableshed then why the tribunal launched own investigation?

Poison? Hear about it first time. How are you aware about the poison?


All deaths in prisons suicides or not (unless blatently natural causes eg. 99yr-old prisoner found dead on wake up call) HAVE to be investigated to rule out foul-play - it is the nature of prisons whether they're national or international ones (with the possible exception of Guantanamo but that's an entirely different thread).

The authorites investigated and stated it was suicide - fine. The tribunal itself now does its own investigation in order to find out how it was that the guy managed to kill himself while in custody by whatever means it was done (did he hang himself with his shoelaces/drink Jeyes Fluid/ slash his wrists with a bit of sharpened bed-frame?) so that they can prevent that sort of thing from happening again! There is no such thing as a perfect system - when mistakes are made (in this case the possible lack of 24hr suveillance has been postulated) investigations need to be done so that those mistakes don't happen again!
 
#17
Potential said:
All deaths in prisons suicides or not (unless blatently natural causes eg. 99yr-old prisoner found dead on wake up call) HAVE to be investigated to rule out foul-play - it is the nature of prisons whether they're national or international ones (with the possible exception of Guantanamo but that's an entirely different thread).

The authorites investigated and stated it was suicide - fine. The tribunal itself now does its own investigation in order to find out how it was that the guy managed to kill himself while in custody by whatever means it was done (did he hang himself with his shoelaces/drink Jeyes Fluid/ slash his wrists with a bit of sharpened bed-frame?) so that they can prevent that sort of thing from happening again! There is no such thing as a perfect system - when mistakes are made (in this case the possible lack of 24hr suveillance has been postulated) investigations need to be done so that those mistakes don't happen again!
Potential!

Why are you so sure that it was a 'mistake'? What if mr.Babic was killed? As I understand this version has been rejected and apparently will not be investigated.

Anyone could expect openness and and fair approach from UN apponted tribunal. But what do we see? Caused of the death are still 'secret'. There are many other questions:

It is not the first suicide (or 'suicide'?). Why appropriate measures had not been taken before?

Is it possible that mr.Milosevic could commit 'suicide'? Why not? Or maybe he is doomed to death from 'natural causes'. Mr.Milosevic was denied right for medical treatment in Moscow. But how good are Dutch doctors? (or 'doctors'?)

As to Kardzic and Mladic then I suppose they don't wish to commit 'suicide' in Dutch jail.
 
#18
keeping your tinfoil hat well polished I see
 
#19
KGB_resident said:
Potential said:
All deaths in prisons suicides or not (unless blatently natural causes eg. 99yr-old prisoner found dead on wake up call) HAVE to be investigated to rule out foul-play - it is the nature of prisons whether they're national or international ones (with the possible exception of Guantanamo but that's an entirely different thread).

The authorites investigated and stated it was suicide - fine. The tribunal itself now does its own investigation in order to find out how it was that the guy managed to kill himself while in custody by whatever means it was done (did he hang himself with his shoelaces/drink Jeyes Fluid/ slash his wrists with a bit of sharpened bed-frame?) so that they can prevent that sort of thing from happening again! There is no such thing as a perfect system - when mistakes are made (in this case the possible lack of 24hr suveillance has been postulated) investigations need to be done so that those mistakes don't happen again!
Potential!

Why are you so sure that it was a 'mistake'? What if mr.Babic was killed? As I understand this version has been rejected and apparently will not be investigated.

Anyone could expect openness and and fair approach from UN apponted tribunal. But what do we see? Caused of the death are still 'secret'. There are many other questions:

It is not the first suicide (or 'suicide'?). Why appropriate measures had not been taken before?

Is it possible that mr.Milosevic could commit 'suicide'? Why not? Or maybe he is doomed to death from 'natural causes'. Mr.Milosevic was denied right for medical treatment in Moscow. But how good are Dutch doctors? (or 'doctors'?)

As to Kardzic and Mladic then I suppose they don't wish to commit 'suicide' in Dutch jail.
I'd say that the Drs are the same or possibly better than those he would have seen in Russia.
Did you ever think that he may have killed himself because of guilt? 13 years is a long time to think about what you've done...


T C
 
#20
The_Cheat said:
KGB_resident said:
Potential said:
All deaths in prisons suicides or not (unless blatently natural causes eg. 99yr-old prisoner found dead on wake up call) HAVE to be investigated to rule out foul-play - it is the nature of prisons whether they're national or international ones (with the possible exception of Guantanamo but that's an entirely different thread).

The authorites investigated and stated it was suicide - fine. The tribunal itself now does its own investigation in order to find out how it was that the guy managed to kill himself while in custody by whatever means it was done (did he hang himself with his shoelaces/drink Jeyes Fluid/ slash his wrists with a bit of sharpened bed-frame?) so that they can prevent that sort of thing from happening again! There is no such thing as a perfect system - when mistakes are made (in this case the possible lack of 24hr suveillance has been postulated) investigations need to be done so that those mistakes don't happen again!
Potential!

Why are you so sure that it was a 'mistake'? What if mr.Babic was killed? As I understand this version has been rejected and apparently will not be investigated.

Anyone could expect openness and and fair approach from UN apponted tribunal. But what do we see? Caused of the death are still 'secret'. There are many other questions:

It is not the first suicide (or 'suicide'?). Why appropriate measures had not been taken before?

Is it possible that mr.Milosevic could commit 'suicide'? Why not? Or maybe he is doomed to death from 'natural causes'. Mr.Milosevic was denied right for medical treatment in Moscow. But how good are Dutch doctors? (or 'doctors'?)

As to Kardzic and Mladic then I suppose they don't wish to commit 'suicide' in Dutch jail.
I'd say that the Drs are the same or possibly better than those he would have seen in Russia.Did you ever think that he may have killed himself because of guilt? 13 years is a long time to think about what you've done...


T C

Through personal experience I know that Dutch Doctors are very good - qualified to the same level as those in the UK.

Also Mr KGB - remember that the tribunal is the INTERNATIONAL war crimes tribunal so the Doctors involved aren't necessarily Dutch! ((They could even be Bosnian Serb or Croat for all you know)
 

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