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Michael Moore

#1
Hey, I'm launching a campaign to send as many copies of SSgt Plouhar's obituary to Michael Moore as possible. Here's the e-mail I sent to him

Marine Recruiter in 'Fahrenheit' Mourned
By SHARON COHEN, AP National Writer

LAKE ORION, Mich. - He was a stern-faced sniper _ and a soft-hearted Marine who handed out candy to kids in Iraq. He was a warrior who wrote poetry about life and death.

He was featured in Michael Moore's antiwar documentary, "Fahrenheit 9/11," portrayed as an overzealous Marine recruiter who targeted poor kids.

But Staff Sgt. Raymond Plouhar was far more complicated than that.

And it was that complicated man who died in Iraq in late June, as he served with some of the same men he had recruited years ago. It was that complex man who was buried Friday, by a family that honored his service but would never forget his humanity.

"He had a huge heart," says his widow, Leigha.

Plouhar was a Marine for 10 of his 30 years, but he had dreamed of joining the military ever since he was a little boy who liked to watch "M-A-S-H" on television and dress in fatigues and a camouflage shirt.

He entered the Corps straight out of high school, was trained as a sniper and traveled the world _ Bosnia, Sudan and Israel. He had a ramrod posture and a fierce pride in his appearance: He once ironed his uniform and polished its brass buttons for two hours before allowing his mom to photograph him.

"He told me lots of times that he learned what could be accomplished .. if you put your heart and soul in it _ and he put his heart and soul in the Marine Corps," says his father, also named Raymond. "He was gung-ho from the time he signed his name until the day he died."

His signature was a memorable one.

His birth certificate read Raymond James Byron Anthony Charles Plouhar _ he was named after all his grandfathers. He followed a long family tradition of military service that included a grandfather who earned a Purple Heart in World War II and an older sister, Toni, who was in the Army.

Plouha r carried a Bible from his grandfather, Raymond, to Iraq. He kept it in his left shirt pocket next to his heart. Tucked inside was a photo of his wife and their two sons, Raymond, 9, and Michael, 5.

As devoted as he was to the Marines, Plouhar had a full life outside the military. He liked to hunt and camp, take canoe trips and fish with his boys.

He was known as a charmer, a good talker, a champion of the underdog (always defending and befriending kids picked on in school) and though he was trained to fight and kill, he preferred the role of peacemaker.

"He didn't like turmoil," recalls his mother, Cynthia. "He wanted everybody to be happy, to get along. ... He'd say 'Life's too short to sweat the small stuff.'"

As family members gathered last week in their lakefront home 30 miles north of Detroit, they lined the walls and windows with photo collages that tell Raymond Plouhar's life in chapters.

There's the grinning kid with the protruding ears ( a coach once joked he looked like a Volkswagen with the doors open) proudly holding up the bass he caught.

There's the sturdy athlete grappling with an opponent around a wrestling circle and posing in the green-and-white football uniform of the Lake Orion Dragons.

There's the young man in love, sitting with high school sweetheart, Leigha, on his dad's Harley on their way to the prom, then years later, together again, he in Marine blue, she in white, on their wedding day.

Then there's the tough-minded Marine in helmet and combat gear _ doling out candy from a plastic bag two months ago to schoolchildren in Iraq.

"He admired the Iraqi people," his father says. "He said, 'Dad, even though I can't understand a word they're saying, if we were back home ... we'd be buddies.'"

Plouhar was killed on June 26 by a roadside bomb in Anbar province in his second tour of duty in Iraq, weeks before he was to return home. He was assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, I Marine Expeditionary Force in Camp Pendleton, Calif.

Plouhar's family says he had no qualms about returning to Iraq and he believed conditions had improved since his first tour in 2005.

"I never worried," Leigha says, "because ... in my head, he was indestructible and nothing could ever happen to him because he was so good at what he did."

His mother says her son preferred to be at the center of the action. In an undated entry in a blog on MySpace.com, Plouhar said "you can call me crazy" but he liked being in Iraq. "Someone has to do it plus I love what I do," he wrote.

Plouhar did step back from active duty for four years and worked as a recruiter in Flint so he could donate a kidney to his uncle.

It was as a recruiter that Plouhar was seen in Moore's award-winning "Fahrenheit 9/11." The segment shows Plouhar and another Marine in a mall parking lot in a depressed suburb of Flint; it suggests the two men were cynically hunting for poor teens to sign up, rather than go to a wealthy suburb where they'd likely be rejected.

Plouhar's father says his son told him he had been misled and believed he was being filmed for a documentary that would appear on the Discovery Channel. (Moore's office didn't return calls or e-mail messages seeking comment.)

"He cried when he found out what it really was," his father says. "He never dreamed that it was going to be something to slam the country, which he dearly loved."

The movie, to be precise, is primarily a criticism of the Bush administration's actions after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

And yet, the elder Plouhar also says he doesn't see anything wrong with his son's actions. "If you really watched just the part with my son in it," he asks, "how could you not say that he was standing tall and proud?"

His parents say they've seen only the segment featuring their son. Leigha Plouhar says her husband asked her n ot to watch the film _ and she never has. Nor has Stephen Wandrie, his friend of 20 years, who says Plouhar was hurt by the film, but told him:

"'You know what? I know what I do is good for this country and every one of those people I'm recruiting _ those guys are my brothers.' "

In the past month, the bloodshed that has become part of the daily life in Iraq seemed to edge closer and closer. He was shaken up in two explosions.

Two weeks before he died, his mother says, he called and she could hear the strain in his voice. But he tried to be reassuring. "He said, I'll be all right. I don't have much longer. ... I'm ready to come home. I'm ready."

And yet he seemed prepared for the possibility he wouldn't.

In a poem he sent to his family last year _ a poem now enlarged to floor-to-ceiling size, and covering a wall of the Plouhar home _ Plouhar said he knew he could die serving his country and was ready to make the sacrifice.

"I will leave my loved ones, my kids, my wife ...," he wrote. "Do not feel pity for me, for this is my choice. ... This is me. This is who I am. I am a Marine to the very end."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You ought to appologize to his family. If you can look them in the eyes that is. And don't give me something like "GWB ought to appologize for sending him to war", don't deflect this. I don't like Bush either, but this isn't about him. I have friends in the American, British, and Danish militaries. Many of them are on the ground in Iraq fighting side-by-side with Iraqi soldiers to secure a better country. Others are in the ground in Afghanistan fighting side-by-side with Afghan soldiers to do the same. I would never ask them to abandon their brothers. You are no better than Bush, you are willing to use others and bend the truth to forward your agenda. I hope Sgt Peter Damon wins his case against you.
Several arrsers have already sent their own

His e-mail address is mmflint@aol.com
 
#3
Moore is an idiot, but the problem is that the US is so polarised with their two party system, no compromise between the Anne Coulter country and the Base ( the 10% of America fundamentally left wing.) Example: We had a lecturer from Washington University come into our school. He was an effeminate, gay, lecturer man from San fransisco who admitted to hugging trees, who didn't understand why "everyone hates americans because really we love you all" AND referred to Hilary Clinton as "SAINT HILARY"....phew

as you were... DanDan
 
#4
Thanks for the email Chief. I've always admired the Great Man and will send him some hearty encouragement. We've been quite deprived of inspiration lately, and haven't seen much of the Great Man on our screens in these parts. I must be honest and say I do miss the regular instalments of TV Nation that graced our screens a few years ago. I suppose he's most likely moved onwards and upwards, being a deserving Oscar winner, and I assume will be spending time on the next important project. That's what I admire about the Great Man - he's got quite an engine, which I'm sure must be fuelled by the constant search for justice in the face of the hypocrisy and ignorance of bent politicians and their supporters.


Once again, thanks Chief - your help is much appreciated.
 
#5
So, French person, what you think of Rush Limbaugh?

frenchperson said:
I've always admired the Great Man and will send him some hearty encouragement. We've been quite deprived of inspiration lately, and haven't seen much of the Great Man... in these parts. I suppose he's most likely moved onwards and upwards, being a deserving... winner, and I assume will be spending time on the next important project. That's what I admire about the Great Man - he's got quite an engine, which I'm sure must be fuelled by the constant search for justice in the face of the hypocrisy and ignorance of bent politicians and their supporters.


.

Just thought I'd take a leaf out of Michael Moores book of cunning editing and misrepresentation for a moment there...:roll:
 
#7
stoatman said:
So, French person, what you think of Rush Limbaugh?

frenchperson said:
I've always admired the Great Man and will send him some hearty encouragement. We've been quite deprived of inspiration lately, and haven't seen much of the Great Man... in these parts. I suppose he's most likely moved onwards and upwards, being a deserving... winner, and I assume will be spending time on the next important project. That's what I admire about the Great Man - he's got quite an engine, which I'm sure must be fuelled by the constant search for justice in the face of the hypocrisy and ignorance of bent politicians and their supporters.


.

Just thought I'd take a leaf out of Michael Moores book of cunning editing and misrepresentation for a moment there...:roll:
Oh...America's truth detector - who dodged the draft? Not a lot
 
#8
dandanthechainsawman said:
Moore is an idiot, but the problem is that the US is so polarised with their two party system, no compromise between the Anne Coulter country and the Base ( the 10% of America fundamentally left wing.) Example: We had a lecturer from Washington University come into our school. He was an effeminate, gay, lecturer man from San fransisco who admitted to hugging trees, who didn't understand why "everyone hates americans because really we love you all" AND referred to Hilary Clinton as "SAINT HILARY"....phew

as you were... DanDan
Sounds like half my city :p
 
#9
frenchperson said:
Thanks for the email Chief. I've always admired the Great Man and will send him some hearty encouragement. We've been quite deprived of inspiration lately, and haven't seen much of the Great Man on our screens in these parts. I must be honest and say I do miss the regular instalments of TV Nation that graced our screens a few years ago. I suppose he's most likely moved onwards and upwards, being a deserving Oscar winner, and I assume will be spending time on the next important project. That's what I admire about the Great Man - he's got quite an engine, which I'm sure must be fuelled by the constant search for justice in the face of the hypocrisy and ignorance of bent politicians and their supporters.


Once again, thanks Chief - your help is much appreciated.
You couldnt possibly be swinging from the Great (BIG FAT) Man's nads that much. How utterly juvenile of you, to try to hurt someones feelings in such a way.
 
#10
I recently read "Michael Moore is a big fat stupid white man"

While admiting to not being 100% impartial, it does show him up for the liar he is. Highly recomended

He is scum
 
#11
frenchperson said:
stoatman said:
So, French person, what you think of Rush Limbaugh?

frenchperson said:
I've always admired the Great Man and will send him some hearty encouragement. We've been quite deprived of inspiration lately, and haven't seen much of the Great Man... in these parts. I suppose he's most likely moved onwards and upwards, being a deserving... winner, and I assume will be spending time on the next important project. That's what I admire about the Great Man - he's got quite an engine, which I'm sure must be fuelled by the constant search for justice in the face of the hypocrisy and ignorance of bent politicians and their supporters.


.

Just thought I'd take a leaf out of Michael Moores book of cunning editing and misrepresentation for a moment there...:roll:
Oh...America's truth detector - who dodged the draft? Not a lot
10 out of 10 for missing the point... perhaps the first line should have been "we asked French person what he thought of Rush Limbaugh, and this was his reply" to make it 250% blindingly obvious what I was doing there...
 
#12
Further: if the man had a valid point he wouldn't need to bully, misrepresent, edit speeches together so that they say something different, imply that things were said at a different time than they were, and generally being arrogant tw@t about it.

The fact that he has to do all of these things and more to make his point at all is rather tragic. And yet certain sections of society lap it up because they so wish it to be true, and even if it's not, it doesn't really matter because "the message is correct anyway".
 
#13
stoatman edited

frenchperson wrote:
I've always admired the Great Man and will send him some hearty encouragement. We've been quite deprived of inspiration lately, and haven't seen much of the Great Man... in these parts. I suppose he's most likely moved onwards and upwards, being a deserving... winner, and I assume will be spending time on the next important project. That's what I admire about the Great Man - he's got quite an engine, which I'm sure must be fuelled by the constant search for justice in the face of the hypocrisy and ignorance of bent politicians and their supporters
stoatman You make a powerful point . Michael More is one of the worst of the at slanting his edits . All news has its edit and there is always going to some sort of slant. Even the selection of stories ,that are printied, is a edit . It is just best to have those providing the news to as transparent as possible, to the perspective they are coming from and to have as many perspectives as possible providing the news.
 
#14
Moore is a talentless little tosser who isn't so much a Film Maker, merely a purveyor of the worlds longest party political broadcasts. His campaigning for the Democrat Party proves his own biased credentials.

If he wants to do some real film making, I suggest he gets his little fat arrse out on the ground with the grunts and sees whats really going on. Tosser!
 
#15
why not send the e-mails to Bush, it was him after all that sent this man and the other 2858 (to date) american men and women to their early graves in Iraq and Afghanistan. Moore didnt kill this bloke, he'd have died even if the film hadnt been made!

its easier to pick on the fat bloke though isnt it? He may have edited the film to slant one way or another but theres still a lot of truth in there.
 
#16
I can't disagree FF.

However there's the truth and there's the "truth".

If Moore did not surround the real hard facts in his films with half truths and innuendo in order to make his point... I might have just a smattering of respect for him.

Bowling For Columbine is a case in point, it raises some very valid points but there's so much utter schiesse surrounding it that it's very difficult present the points raised to anyone who is opposed to Moore's point of view, or even genuinely impartial without having the enormous holes in the logic, falacies and innacurate suggestions pointed out.

Farenheit is a lot worse in that respect than Bowling'.
 
#17
John Pilger: Makes point. Invites representative from other side to respond. Sits in office and asks intelligent and pointed questions to representative, then gives representative time to respond. Shows full response.

Michael Moore: Makes point. Doorsteps busy executive hurrying from one meeting to another, shouts a few slogans and questions. Executive isn't expecting this, probably isn't even aware of the issue and is unable to respond. Executive hurries off to next meeting. MM edits this to make it look as if the executive is running away from the question.
 
#18
Michael Moore has a new movie out this year, Sicko, about the health system in the US. Wonder if he'll find time for the disabled Iraq vets who can't afford medical treatment.

Almost half of America's 2.7 million disabled veterans receive $337 or less a month in benefits, according to the government.

"Only those who receive that 100 percent benefit rating can survive in New York," says J.B. White, a 36-year-old former Marine who served with a National Guard unit in Iraq. His colon was removed after he was diagnosed with severe ulcerative colitis, which civilian medical experts believe started in Iraq under the stress of war.

"I'd be homeless if it weren't for the support of my family," says White, who is trying to win benefits from the VA


Homeless After Iraq
 
#19
Bowling For Columbine is a case in point, it raises some very valid points but there's so much utter schiesse surrounding it that it's very difficult present the points raised to anyone who is opposed to Moore's point of view, or even genuinely impartial without having the enormous holes in the logic, falacies and innacurate suggestions pointed out
.

I haven't seen Bowling For Columbine( I am not going to give him my ten dollars) . He doesn't seem to have made any points with Americans. Its Europe and Europeans that seem to love the guy along with our American urban left leaning elites . Those that know the US the least love Michael the Most. Politically Gun control is a non issue
When we as Democrats are trying to reach out and speak to voters in the center of the country, I don't think that we can support gun control," he explains. After seeing Democrats hammered at the polls for voting to regulate guns, many of his colleagues seem to agree. As a result, a number of pro-gun measures moving through Congress will most likely face little opposition, as advocates of gun control increasingly find themselves marginalized and ignored








http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060709/17guns.htm
 
#20
trouble is those that hate micheal moore seem to think he should be fair and even handed.
he's not trying to be fair or even handed he's writing polemics just better and more succesful at than rush or anne .
Freedom of speech anyone?
 

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