MH17: Russia liable for downing airliner over Ukraine

Gadaffi was a third way socialist and arab nationalist, making him a very confused boy and he evolved into a classical personality cult. The words Junta and Nazi are pejoratively associated with the right.
You said we all use such language. I said we hadn’t. You ‘whataboutery’d with Libyan rebels then Gaddafi
The Ukranians of the 40s were fascist and the Serbs made the same commentary about the Croats. Both those countries during there change of government/independence, relied to an extent on the muscle that comes from those types of people. They may have faded away, but its a good attack line if you were a PR man.
So you agree with Putin’s rhetoric through his agitprop. Quelle surprise.
You are desperate to win a propaganda war with them, but your preaching to the wrong people and fighting battles the Russians have already won.
Me? Nope. Just pointing out some facts and absurdities on t’internet.
If you want to beat Russia, give there people a new vision of prosperity away from putin.
You need to differentiate between the Russian people and those who Sergey calls ‘crooks and thieves’. As before, look at ‘muscovite mindset’
 
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Yes.

Surely no. If it was so, Netherlands did proper investigation - with data from Ukrainian Army, Ukrainian flight control, USA sattelite data, and so on. But they preffer to gather YouTube rubbish (may be, made by Ukres or Yanks).
I mean, you can easily find there even video about Earthings invasion on Pandora.
Oh god, another one.

**** off back to Russia.
 
Nope. Try Ukraine’s borders, pullout of all foreign troops, verified ceasefires and withdrawal of heavy weapons before elections.
You are wrong. Minsk agreements are not about surrender of DPR and LPR, they are about legitimisation of their de facto independence.

Surely yes. Bellingcat said it years ago based on open source info. The JIT have confirmed that finding using all of the info available to them and cross referencing that info
Can you see the difference between terms "open source info" AKA "rumours", "fake videos" and "Yanks orders", and "proper proves" AKA "documents", "interrogation protocols" and "expert examinations"?
 
You are wrong. Minsk agreements are not about surrender of DPR and LPR, they are about legitimisation of their de facto independence.
Nope. Show me where it says that?
Can you see the difference between terms "open source info" AKA "rumours", "fake videos" and "Yanks orders", and "proper proves" AKA "documents", "interrogation protocols" and "expert examinations"?
Bellingcat said ‘Russia did it’ years ago based on open source. The Dutch and Australian etc JIT said ‘Russia did it’ based on their independent investigation.
 
Nope. Show me where it says that?
Read text of it. Read about Ukrainian nationalists reaction on those agreements.
Bellingcat said ‘Russia did it’ years ago based on open source. The Dutch and Australian etc JIT said ‘Russia did it’ based on their independent investigation.
They said "Russia did it" every time something goes wrong. It means nothing. Show me any real prove.
 
Read text of it. Read about Ukrainian nationalists reaction on those agreements.
Show me where it says ‘Minsk agreements are not about surrender of DPR and LPR, they are about legitimisation of their de facto independence.’?
They said "Russia did it" every time something goes wrong. It means nothing. Show me any real prove.
Yes YarS. Your corrupt govt has been found out again. Your English hasn’t improved either has it?
 
You are wrong. Minsk agreements are not about surrender of DPR and LPR, they are about legitimisation of their de facto independence.


Can you see the difference between terms "open source info" AKA "rumours", "fake videos" and "Yanks orders", and "proper proves" AKA "documents", "interrogation protocols" and "expert examinations"?
Sure can champ. Bellingcat does a great job.
 
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You said we all use such language. I said we hadn’t. You ‘whataboutery’d with Libyan rebels then Gaddafi

So you agree with Putin’s rhetoric through his agitprop. Quelle surprise.

Me? Nope. Just pointing out some facts and absurdities on t’internet.

You need to differentiate between the Russian people and those who Sergey calls ‘crooks and thieves’. As before, look at ‘muscovite mindset’
You use that language, with your constant references to the muscovite mindset, which gives the impression they are different to us.

The Ukranians were dodgy in the 40s (ask the jews) and the Croatians were dodgy in the 40s (ask the serbs). Both Croatia (HOS) and the Ukranian protesters, did have far right elements... I do not agree with the later interpretation, that you can then define the whole nation as so. But its still a clever linkage.

To imply Russians are any different to anybody else is a reach. To say Putin and cronies are any different to any other non-democratic government is just wrong, your whole muscovite mindset is no different to any other capital city, they are full of hubristic elements.
 
Gadaffi was a third way socialist and arab nationalist, making him a very confused boy and he evolved into a classical personality cult. The words Junta and Nazi are pejoratively associated with the right.

The Ukranians of the 40s were fascist and the Serbs made the same commentary about the Croats. Both those countries during there change of government/independence, relied to an extent on the muscle that comes from those types of people. They may have faded away, but its a good attack line if you were a PR man.

You are desperate to win a propaganda war with them, but your preaching to the wrong people and fighting battles the Russians have already won. If you want to beat Russia, give there people a new vision of prosperity away from putin.
Er, no. Calling the Ukrainians of the 40s fascist is a sweeping generalisation and incorrect. As ever, it's more complicated.

Prior to th 40's Ukraine was split between Poland and the USSR, with latter having most of it and any fascists on the soviet side would have had short shrift.

Those that could be termed nationalist were better able to organise themselves in the Polish sector. These could be characterised as those wanting an independent state and ranged from moderates to the extreme right.

During the German occupation, many did join in with Germans but for a variety of reasons. From either being Nazi sympathisers and anti Semitic sadists who joined in the shootings, to being the only option to survive.

And don't forget that there were Ukrainians on the soviet side too.

As always, the victor's history can prevail and be dominant, and whilst nationalist Ukrainians did commit atrocities it serves some to paint them all as fascists.

And if you are referring to current events, whilst the extreme right are vocal and get headlines they did not do well in the election, losing their deposit so to speak.
 
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Er, no. Calling the Ukrainians of the 40s fascist is a sweeping generalisation and incorrect. As ever, it's more complicated.

Prior to th 40's Ukraine was split between Poland and the USSR, with latter having most of it and any fascists on the soviet side would have had short shrift.

Those that could be termed nationalist were better able to organise themselves in the Polish sector. These could be characterised as those wanting an independent state and ranged from moderates to the extreme right.

During the German occupation, many did join in with Germans but for a variety of reasons. From either being Nazi sympathisers and anti Semitic sadists who joined in the shootings, to being the only option to survive.

And don't forget that there were Ukrainians on the soviet side too.

As always, the victor's history can prevail and be dominant, and whilst nationalist Ukrainians did commit atrocities it serves some to paint them all as fascists.

And if you are referring to current events, whilst the extreme right are vocal and get headlines they did not do well in the election, losing their deposit so to speak.
I did say I didn't agree with the agitprop of today, as the far right are hopeless and suspected what you say. I expressed it was a clever linkage.
 
You use that language, with your constant references to the muscovite mindset, which gives the impression they are different to us.
More ‘whataboutery’. You reckon you’re not a Russian troll. Have you read it?

You have in no way proven your point that we have called other govts Junta’s and Nazi’s apart from the Junta in Argentina and of course the Nazi’s. Never called anyone both tmk and you still have no source.
The Ukranians were dodgy in the 40s (ask the jews) and the Croatians were dodgy in the 40s (ask the serbs). Both Croatia (HOS) and the Ukranian protesters, did have far right elements... I do not agree with the later interpretation, that you can then define the whole nation as so. But its still a clever linkage.
More ‘whataboutery’. You’ve moved from Libyan rebels and Gaddafi to some people in history from some countries.
To imply Russians are any different to anybody else is a reach.
You keep trying to say Russians are a race. That is agitprop troll speak. Sure you’re not one?
To say Putin and cronies are any different to any other non-democratic government is just wrong, your whole muscovite mindset is no different to any other capital city, they are full of hubristic elements.
You haven’t read it and I never coined the phrase. Read it.

One day you’ll stop wriggling
 
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Guest
More ‘whataboutery’. You reckon you’re not a Russian troll. Have you read it?

You have in no way proven your point that we have called other govts Junta’s and Nazi’s apart from the Junta in Argentina and of course the Nazi’s. Never called anyone both tmk and you still have no source.

More ‘whataboutery’. You’ve moved from Libyan rebels and Gaddafi to some people in history from some countries.

You keep trying to say Russians are a race. That is agitprop troll speak. Sure you’re not one?

You haven’t read it and I never coined the phrase. Read it.

One day you’ll stop wriggling
Junta NAZIS -- Saddam Hussein and the Baath Party 1990 and again in 96 and post-9/11.
 
Junta NAZIS -- Saddam Hussein and the Baath Party 1990 and again in 96 and post-9/11.
Source? The U.K. govt called Saddam’s govt and party Junta and Nazi’s?
 
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Source? The U.K. govt called Saddam’s govt and party Junta and Nazi’s?
Are you serious :) but on the off chance your not pulling my plonker, try typing into google:-

Saddam Hussein NAZIs - explains the background, parallels and everything else.
Baath Party Junta -- explains how the party went from a military junta to a personality cult.
 
Junta NAZIS -- Saddam Hussein and the Baath Party 1990 and again in 96 and post-9/11.
Again, a bit selective.
Saddam was basically a gangster, and his two psycho sons were worse.
However, the Baathist movement they allegedly led (like the vicious Assad regime in Syria) was a creation of the 1930's when political thought was dominated by Communism or Fascism.
Baathists were very much in the Fascist camp.
So, was Saddam a Nazi? No.
Was he a Fascist?
As much as he could articulate it, very likely.
 
Are you serious :) but on the off chance your not pulling my plonker, try typing into google:-

Saddam Hussein NAZIs - explains the background, parallels and everything else.
Baath Party Junta -- explains how the party went from a military junta to a personality cult.
More like Stalin's USSR then............ and Putin is rehabilitating him to follow in his footsteps.
 
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Deleted 154930

Guest
Again, a bit selective.
Saddam was basically a gangster, and his two psycho sons were worse.
However, the Baathist movement they allegedly led (like the vicious Assad regime in Syria) was a creation of the 1930's when political thought was dominated by Communism or Fascism.
Baathists were very much in the Fascist camp.
So, was Saddam a Nazi? No.
Was he a Fascist?
As much as he could articulate it, very likely.
Scalie asked for an example, so I gave him one that met his exact criteria, so hardly selective.
 
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