Mexico - Narco-state in the making?

I was trying to put it into context in the rest of that paragraph when I said that the murder rate in Mexico is roughly the same as the murder rate in Washington DC, which by the way is far from the highest in the US. Perhaps I was being too subtle.

While the crime rate is appalling in European or Canadian terms, I think that calling Mexico a "narco-state" or a "nascent failed state" as some people are inclined is being a bit melodramatic when parts of the US are as bad or worse.

What the violence lacks in Mexico is any sort of political character. While it may be unpleasant, it doesn't directly threaten the stability of the state. It does upset the populace, but so far they haven't seen overthrowing the government as being any sort of solution.

The murder rates in Colombia or Brazil by the way are as high or higher and have been for many years. Much of Latin America and the Caribbean is quite violent. The anomalies in the Western Hemisphere fact are Canada and a couple of minor European colonial possessions, where the murder rates are more similar to those of Europe.

Here's a list that makes for interesting reading.
Aside from a few outliers like South Africa and a few other places in Africa, there isn't any place else on earth which is as violent as this region. If you look at the top 20 countries or territories in terms of murder rate, 18 are in Centra America, South America, and the Caribbean, and the remaining two are in Africa (South Africa and Lesotho). If you look at the total number of murders committed in the world, nearly two thirds of them are in the top 10 countries (Brazil, India, Mexico, South Africa, Nigeria, Venezuela, United States, Russia, Colombia, Democratic Republic of the Congo). Half of those are in the Western Hemisphere (Brazil, Mexico, Venezuela, the US, Colombia).

But even within that set of data there are huge variations for no obvious reason. For example, the murder rate in Nicaragua, while high, isn't much higher than that of the US. The rates in neighbouring Guatamala, Honduras, and El Salvador though are multiple times higher and the highest in the world.

Mexico doesn't stand out as particularly unusual in the context of the region as a whole. If they were to be considered to be in danger of being unstable due to violence, then some other big countries such as Brazil and Colombia are just as bad or worse, and that's before you get to the smaller countries in between and in the Caribbean where the problem is several times worse.
You are comparing a city vs a nation... What is a Narco state if it isn't chopping heads off with videos, rampant corruption throughout the government and military/police, Mass graves, missing busloads of students, helicopters being RPG'ed out of the sky and cops ambushed with .50 cals and IEDs?

The murder rate is 6 times that of the U.S - and that's the bodies they found.

I have a Mexican guy that delivers supplies ( legal office supplies... :) ) and he has a vacation house in Rocky point MX. He has offered to take me fishing down there and said 'its safe, no worries'.

Cue mass graves found and those searching were driven off by cartels. Local police dont want to find any more bodies as they haven't identified the initial ones they found.

I asked him about it and all he said is ' Don't ask me about cartels, I know nothing'. No fishing for me...

How many of those murders in the U.S are cartel related? The 18th street gang is the biggest street gang in the CA - most of the members are illegal immigrants living in the U.S, but they are heavily connected with Mexican cartels ( as are MS13 and many others).
 
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Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
Its only a matter of time before septic troops are "Helping the authorities" of Mexico clean up and maintain order over their border, all with extreme prejudice. If they do not already have covert observers there.
You haven't seen Emily Blunt doing her cop thang in 'Sicario' yet? Only four years old...probably on Netflix by now.



Benicio del Toro's finest moment. I'm told the sequel is shyte.

According to Hollywood, various US govt agencies are eyeball deep in the cartel bloodfest.

Get with the beat Daddio :)
 
What is a Narco state if it isn't chopping heads off with videos, rampant corruption throughout the government and military/police, Mass graves, missing busloads of students, helicopters being RPG'ed out of the sky and cops ambushed with .50 cals and IEDs?
A country where the narcotics gangs have supplanted the state, not just one where there are extremely violent criminals running rampant.
 
A country where the narcotics gangs have supplanted the state, not just one where there are extremely violent criminals running rampant.
Sounds like Mexico - the last President got a nice chunk of change for working nicely with the cartels and the Current one was a long time member of the PRI ( not those thieves - Institutional Revolutionary Party - Wikipedia ) ...who are allied with the cartels.

The cartels have lots of control over political and military decisions, and are the major player when it comes to pumping money into elections if Murder isn't an option.
 

Mufulira

Old-Salt
He’s right. Your natural assets will be no match for the melted stickle brick faced, feral cunning of all the latent doctors, engineers and ballet dancers shuffling through damp litter in the gloom between the one in four functioning street lights.

Croydon is where the shreds of DNA from failed medical experiments is dumped. When the sun comes out it aggregates into citizens.
Croydon made famous by no-one more farsighted than PM Harold Wilson when referring to rebel Rhodesia " I can't have the population of Croydon going against me"
 
A country where the narcotics gangs have supplanted the state, not just one where there are extremely violent criminals running rampant.
Yes, exactly. As I said previously crime is excessive in Mexico. That isn't the whole picture though. It isn't the basis of the economy and while many parts of the state may be corrupt, the state as a whole doesn't exist for the benefit of drug traffickers.

And to those who posted that Mexico is a country while Washington DC is a city have missed the point. I don't see Americans saying that their major cities are mini "narco states" because of the drug fuelled crime which is rampant there.

You need to have a sense of proportion. As I also pointed out, almost everywhere in the western hemisphere south of Canada has an unusually high murder rate compared to Europe. Mexico doesn't stand out in that regards, they are in fact somewhere in the middle.
 
(...) The Mexican Government is unable to maintain control of their own country. The Cartels are getting a bit bold and if left unchecked the odds of covert or outright overt American intervention grow. Nobody cares about “Democracy” in Mexico. We just want the Mexicans and Central Americans to stay on their side of the border. (...)
Says the guy who tells us breathlessly and in all seriousness that he needs a personal arsenal of weaponry in order to defend himself from the gangs of criminals who rove the landscape in the middle of nowhere where he lives because the authorities of the state are powerless to maintain law and order.
 
Yes, exactly. As I said previously crime is excessive in Mexico. That isn't the whole picture though. It isn't the basis of the economy and while many parts of the state may be corrupt, the state as a whole doesn't exist for the benefit of drug traffickers.

And to those who posted that Mexico is a country while Washington DC is a city have missed the point. I don't see Americans saying that their major cities are mini "narco states" because of the drug fuelled crime which is rampant there.

You need to have a sense of proportion. As I also pointed out, almost everywhere in the western hemisphere south of Canada has an unusually high murder rate compared to Europe. Mexico doesn't stand out in that regards, they are in fact somewhere in the middle.



Well according to the stats....Canada has a murder rate of 1.80 which is pretty high compared to most of Europe. But I digress you are the Maple Leaf Queen who lives in Justopia.


Ontario seems to be a rough province to live in.
266 homicide victims in 2018 alone...
Shame shame.
 
Says the guy who tells us breathlessly and in all seriousness that he needs a personal arsenal of weaponry in order to defend himself from the gangs of criminals who rove the landscape in the middle of nowhere where he lives because the authorities of the state are powerless to maintain law and order.
1575327302810.png
 
13 inch radius on iron sights, bendy barrel, fragile cocking handle, unguarded mag release that presses against your webbing and dumps your mag . . .cheap don't mean a good deal.
One of Murphy's laws of warfare - your weapon was probably made by the lowest bidder.
 

Mufulira

Old-Salt


Well according to the stats....Canada has a murder rate of 1.80 which is pretty high compared to most of Europe. But I digress you are the Maple Leaf Queen who lives in Justopia.


Ontario seems to be a rough province to live in.
266 homicide victims in 2018 alone...
Shame shame.
LJonesy: apparently the perp's were not registered owners who had passed mandatory licencing tests... which seems to elude most of the ant-firearm claque
 

Mufulira

Old-Salt
When working in Mexico a few years ago near Zacatecas, we 3 gringos had a flat in an area filled with Federales and anti-narco cops. Our little Nissan pick -up was familiar to all around us but the Fed's had a supply of vehicles that would make Clarkson green, every 2nd day their vehicles would swap out from pimped Dodge Rams, Lexus, Porches etc etc. All of them were heavily armed with 9mm Glocks, M-16 variants, Semi auto 12 gauge and plenty of ammo festooned all over. They were obviously prepared to use said kit as we could read last night's scores in the T & A Sentinela newspaper 'narco's 0 Federales 6'.
As we trundled off to work early morning we passed a prison on our way with a simple sign outside "CERESO" which I took to mean the name of the place -- my mistake, the PC crowd had already landed in Mexico it meant Centre for Social Readaptation. It was a great place to work and our Mx colleagues were always prepared to party at the slightest provocation.
 
@Tedsson You asked about the .50 cal rifle in the Trump thread. Here is video of the cartels using one and a belt fed .50 as well ( no doubt bought at a gunshow and smuggled over the border :rolleyes: )




I saw an interesting video of a GMC silverado found in a Texas junkyard - It had the radiator/battery/engine block all armored against .50 cal, whilst also looking fairly standard from the outside. Also Armored glass and door inserts.

edit - found it Guy Exploring A Junkyard Finds An Old Cartel Truck Riddled With Bullet Holes - Digg
 
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