Methane Hydrate.....the new gas bonanza?

Lomax

War Hero
I've read in the past that the big problem was that as a resource methane hydrates are scattered over a very wide area, so short of a new novel way of getting at them it is always going to require a lot of effort to extract it giving a poor return on investment (in the past it was always negative...).

Although with todays world of fracking and high energy prices maybe they are now viable, it does not sound like a cheap energy though.
 
Is this something produced by bovines and their waste products.

It's a new technology with quite old science behind it. Sort of tie a 6" pipe to a cows arrse and light the blue touch paper at the other end to warm the house up?
 

baconator

Old-Salt
Depends, if it's leaking out of the sea bed as a gas already, then it wont be any worse by burning it.

And maybe they will finally come up with hard evidence to suggest that man made global warming is a lie.
Then let the burning commence!
 
Depends, if it's leaking out of the sea bed as a gas already, then it wont be any worse by burning it.

And maybe they will finally come up with hard evidence to suggest that man made global warming is a lie.
Then let the burning commence!

According to this BBC article yesterday the ocean floor methane leaks oxidise into CO2 well below the surface.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-28898223

Of course, if you don't believe greenhouse gases are a problem the point is moot. Personally I believe the scientific consensus.
 

NSP

LE
Personally I believe the scientific consensus.
Hmmmmm... The consensus that systematically ignores any evidence that temperatures remained static for some years and the trend for the last twelve years or so has been one of cooling? The consensus that has been shown to be based on manipulated and cherry-picked data (Climategate scandals being a case in point), and the fanatical denigration and dirty tricks played against anyone in science who puts research up disproving this consensus regardless of how thoroughly reviewed it is? The consensus based on manipulated computer models of the manipulated data (hockey stick)...? And so on...

The Aussie version of the Met. Office is the latest "scientific" group caught manipulating "homogenising" raw data to show what they want people to believe and not what is actually happening.

I mean, if this consensus is so solid why do people like Natalie Bennett, leader of The Green Party, feel the need to issue statements demanding that anyone not agreeing with their point of view should be summarily dismissed from their posts (not that that sounds in any way remotely fascist, or anything)...?

So, personally, I become increasingly sceptical with every new scientific paper that the "consensus" goes into attack overdrive trying to suppress. If they were so certain of their position then they'd manage to defeat contrary arguments with grown-up debate and not have to resort to the sort of underhand dirty tricks, smearing and bullying not seen since the 1997 Labour Party GE campaign.

Edited to add:-
There isn't a scientific consensus, the entire field of climate science is corrupted by vested interests.
That's another good point I should've mentioned above. Although I think I allude to it slightly with the Green Party reference.
 
Is this something produced by bovines and their waste products.

It's a new technology with quite old science behind it. Sort of tie a 6" pipe to a cows arrse and light the blue touch paper at the other end to warm the house up?
The technology does work, but it needs a certain amount of care.

A report of several years ago told of someone lighting a cigarette whilst standing at the rear end of a cow just as it farted.

There was a whoosh of flame which set fire to a stack of hay, which in turn burnt down the barn.

The report ended cryptically with the words "the cow escaped unhurt". :)
 
Little point rehashing the AGW debate for the eleventy billionth time on t'internet. I was responding to the OP regarding use of methane as a viable fuel alternative.
 

NSP

LE
The technology does work, but it needs a certain amount of care.

A report of several years ago told of someone lighting a cigarette whilst standing at the rear end of a cow just as it farted.

There was a whoosh of flame which set fire to a stack of hay, which in turn burnt down the barn.

The report ended cryptically with the words "the cow escaped unhurt". :)
You may possibly be referring to a telling of this tale, originally appearing in The Book of Heroic Failures...?

26-08-2014 12-53-49.jpg

Page 26 of the link refers.
 
Bog land also produces immense amounts of methane which goes to atmosphere. If it could be captured the Irish would be the Saudis of western europe.
 

NSP

LE
Little point rehashing the AGW debate for the eleventy billionth time on t'internet. I was responding to the OP regarding use of methane as a viable fuel alternative.
Indeed. You have stated you agree, I have stated I am sceptical. We should thus agree to disagree, perhaps...?

If this trapped methane can be recovered cleanly and efficiently then why not? The issues come with boring wells and installing infrastructure underwater, especially if they are also in geologically unstable areas. However, we've been doing that for decades and the technology is well advanced, as we push into ever deeper water (some of the GoM fields are pushing 3000m WD).

As to burning the stuff in the presence of air...? Well, since we've been doing that for decades, too, as methane is the principal component of natural gas I suspect we already know the answer to that question also.

You may find this article in Nature Geosciences, published at the weekend, of passing interest (the Daily Wail picked up on it yesterday with their typical flair for the hysterical. WUWT is somewhat more measured) but, at the end of the day, global warming doesn't cause tectonic plates to move and open up fissures.
 
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NSP

LE
Bog land also produces immense amounts of methane which goes to atmosphere. If it could be captured the Irish would be the Saudis of western europe.
Would I be correct in recalling that the world's bovine population produces the most atmospheric methane?
 
You may possibly be referring to a telling of this tale, originally appearing in The Book of Heroic Failures...?

View attachment 175171
Page 26 of the link refers.
That definitely made oi larf. It reminds me of the German shaggy dog story about Ilse die Kuh, in which a major problem is glossed over and the death of the cow becomes the main point.
What the article doesn't mention is just what speed the cow attained through this new form of rocket propulsion.
The Book of Heroic Failures? Not edited or even written by The Emperor perchance?
 
Indeed. You have stated you agree, I have stated I am sceptical. We should thus agree to disagree, perhaps...?

It'll save us at least 73 pages of pi**ing contest, so agreed.

Actually, burning methane instead of allowing it to enter the atmosphere might be slightly preferable in terms of greenhouse gas effect - assuming methane is 21 times more effective at trapping heat in the atmosphere (as stated here: http://www.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_worst_greenhouse_gases_and_why ).

How's that for a u-turn?
 
produces immense amounts of methane which goes to atmosphere. If it could be captured the Irish would be the Saudis of western europe.

Sheik Slab Bin Murphy. That has a certain ring to it.
 
Methane is released in significant quantities from the thawing permafrost; a problem which will be difficult to address as the only effective method to get rid of it will be to flare it off thus contributing to global warming ( albeit 21 x less potent as CO2 than methane).
Sub oceanic methane hydrate is kept in it's semi solid form via a combination of temperature and extreme pressure.....increase the temperature or reduce the pressure and it reverts to a gas. As the seas absorb heat more methane will be released creating more heat.
Looks like we are going to have to figure a way of mining and burning it so we might as well use it to spin turbines.
 

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