Met to use hollow points - Auntie Beeb outraged!

#1
BBC News - Met Police to use 'unsurvivable' hollow point bullets


You've gotta love their take on things:

The Metropolitan Police is to issue all its firearms officers with ammunition described as "unsurvivable".
Similar "dum dum" bullets, invented in the 19th Century by the British in India, were outlawed in warfare under the Hague Declaration in 1899.

This one is the best, however:

David Dyson is a barrister and ballistics consultant.

Asked whether the rounds were unsurvivable, he said: "Yes. They don't use these bullets in the anticipation that people will survive.
That would be the definition of 'lethal force', no?
 
#3
Maybe we should use them eagle claw things the yanks have... you know the ones that open out in to huge talon like stars as tehy pass through your organs.
 
#4
Perhaps they'll also start issuing them with decent ammunition now instead of the 90gr crap they've been using.

I don't understand what the fuss is about. Here in the colonies it's G22 .40 with Speer gold dot 180gr hollow point ammo and no one gives a shit.
 
#5
No doubt the Equality Commission will now be looking into why Brazilians aren't considered worthy of them too!
 
#6
No doubt the Equality Commission will now be looking into why Brazilians aren't considered worthy of them too!

Oh, but they are! Note how they have now changed the title of their story, to give a little more flavour:
BBC News - Met Police to use Jean Charles De Menezes death bullets

Mr De Menezes, a Brazillian falsely identified as a suicide bomber, was shot dead in 2005 with hollow point bullets.


After it emerged he was killed with the ammunition, cousin Alex Pereira said: "I am shocked and angry. I had no idea.

Sure Alex. If they had filled him with a couple of mags of 9mm ball, he'd be with us and laughing about it today.
 
#7
BBC News - Met Police to use 'unsurvivable' hollow point bullets


You've gotta love their take on things:






This one is the best, however:



That would be the definition of 'lethal force', no?
Maybe someone should have talked to the FBI Agents involved in infamous shoot out with bank robbers in Florida in the 80s. Two robbers armed with semi auto rifles killed 2 Agents and severly wounded 2 others before being killed. One of them (William Platt?) was hit by a 9mm hollow point which expanded and stopped just short of his heart. Ball ammo would have hit the heart. That was to cut a long story very short, the start of 40S&W cal.
 
#8
What's the fuss? At least that have Field Tested them an they achieved both aims.
 
#10
After it emerged he was killed with the ammunition, cousin Alex Pereira said: "I am shocked and angry. I had no idea.
It didn't emerge, Alex dear. It mushroomed all over the place and stayed firmly lodged inside his swede.

PS I remember a similar episode of journalistic excitement (in about 1982?) when the Metropolitan Police announced it would be arming some officers with H&K MP5 (or whatever it was) SMGs. The bit that caught their attention was that the police would have sub-MACHINE GUNS . I think the public thought the bobbies would be bimbling arouind with a water-cooled Vickers -MACHINE GUN in a holster.

They also had difficulty with the concept of "rubber bullets" not being a non-lethal rifle round.

Have they stopped using the 12-bore Remington pump-action jobs with the solid shot?
 
#11
Perhaps they'll also start issuing them with decent ammunition now instead of the 90gr crap they've been using.I don't understand what the fuss is about. Here in the colonies it's G22 .40 with Speer gold dot 180gr hollow point ammo and no one gives a shit.
The effectiveness of these rounds was brought home to me when, in the early 90's, a colleague of mine was shot by a male wanted for murder. The male had emerged from a wooded area to find my colleague sitting in his patrol car, talking to two armed officers in an adjacent vehicle. Standing behind the police car, he shot the cop in the back of the head. Fortunately, the headrest took much of the impact although, to this day, he has 60-odd pellets in his head and neck and suffers from tinitus. The two AFO's immediately engaged the shooter with MP5's at a range of 20 metres. He was shot twice in the chest. However, neither bullet (95g I think) penetrated his chest cavity, both deflecting off bone and causing non-lethal injuries. They should have finished the **** off - instead he'll be up for parole soon. Unsurvivable my arse.
 
#12
I prefer less killy bullets myself, the ones that you always survive.
Don't be silly. Anybody who has watched reruns of "The Professionals" on ITV4 knows that it's possible to shoot a firearm straight out of the hands of an assailant, leaving him with a look of surprise but otherwise unharmed.

This task is especially easy if you are a former ladies' hairdresser with a curly perm and a sheepskin jacket.
 
#13
Have they stopped using the 12-bore Remington pump-action jobs with the solid shot?
still used for humane distruction of animals I believe
 
#14
Maybe someone should have talked to the FBI Agents involved in infamous shoot out with bank robbers in Florida in the 80s. Two robbers armed with semi auto rifles killed 2 Agents and severly wounded 2 others before being killed. One of them (William Platt?) was hit by a 9mm hollow point which expanded and stopped just short of his heart. Ball ammo would have hit the heart. That was to cut a long story very short, the start of 40S&W cal.
William Matix and Michael Platt. I think they took a dozen rounds between them.
 
#15
Don't be silly. Anybody who has watched reruns of "The Professionals" on ITV4 knows that it's possible to shoot a firearm straight out of the hands of an assailant, leaving him with a look of surprise but otherwise unharmed.

This task is especially easy if you are a former ladies' hairdresser with a curly perm and a sheepskin jacket.
And for years and years it's been possible to shoot someone in the shoulder and have them back fit and well for the next weeks episode.
 
#16
#17
it was after that they approved the carry of larger cal handguns firstly in the form of 10mm they even had a special MP5 produced in the form of the MP5/10 chambered for the larger calibre

wierdly the FBI have always been a little bit "anti" gun (for want of a better phrase) it wasn't untill 1934 that they were allowed to be armed (formed in 1908 )
 
#18
The ballistics “expert" hit the nail on the head in the last sentence of the article, “Mr Dyson added that deer stalkers are compelled to use them because they do not go right through the animal”, which is a good thing when there might be innocent bystanders behind the target/terrorist/electrician.
 
#19
One could argue that hollowpoints are preferable because they won't go through the target and hit some other poor bastard. That's the reasoning in Aussie.
 
#20
One could argue that hollowpoints are preferable because they won't go through the target and hit some other poor bastard.
We know. 8,9,10
 

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