Met Constable arrested for terrorism offences

He’s a member of a proscribed organisation and the question has to be asked, was he joining the police just to be a policeman or was he in effect trying to gain some kind of advantage for his unlawful sponsors?

As to other groups on either side of the political spectrum, it’s a simple one really. In a job like being a police officer, the job comes first. Full stop.

That also includes what you do in your free time. As I understand it, if you are off duty, you still have your warrant card in your pocket.

I vaguely recall that police officers either weren’t allowed to belong to a political party or weren’t allowed to be active in it. I might be wrong on that?

During the course of my working career when I worked for a trade union, I came across a number of people belonging to things like the SWP and Militant Tendency etc. Their views on the police were that generally, the police were a part of the system. Something they wouldn’t want to be involved with.

So I think the problem of someone from the hard left joining the police service wasn’t ever likely to happen. That doesn’t mean that police officers wouldn’t be Labour voters. Some of them are. Despite some views expressed on arrse, it’s not unreasonable to do so if you agree with Labours manifesto.

Personally, I’d prefer my coppers to be middle of the road ordinary people who keep their political opinions away from the job. That’s how it should be and I think that’s what most police officers do.
 
You mean

BLM Protest 11/06

Soft Hats and no tools

Save our Statues protest 13/06
Urban Hoplite gear...

Prompting the question...

BLM protest 11/06; police start off in soft posture and protected officers were deployed when things started getting thrown at them.

Save our Statues protest 13/06; police start off in soft posture and protected officers were deployed when things started getting thrown at them.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
As I recall (late 70's/early 80's)the claim was made the other war round i.e noble soldierly heroic Waffen SS, Nasty murdering other SS.. when an ex W-SS guy brought out his memoirs... See if I can dig it out.... let my copy go years ago...
I had a history book on the Waffen-SS in the early 70s that tried to make that point.

 
I vaguely recall that police officers either weren’t allowed to belong to a political party or weren’t allowed to be active in it. I might be wrong on that
You are correct. There was a chap who was a Special Constable who had to resign when elected as an MP. MPs can continue to serve in the Reserves however.
 
National Action ? hmm ... Never heard of them.
( Google it and eventually Wiki has something on it )

Apparently it has only 60-100 members - despite being editable by anyone who wants to add a zero - (so the Common Purpose / BLM / Socialists have missed a trick here ) and one ( 1 ) Yes - one of this tiny group of inadequate mongs has slipped through Police vetting.

While I regretfully have a fairly low opinion of the state of our current Police Service -( get down on one knee you bitches ) - I find this hard to blame on C Dick.

I guess Police recruiting has been 'out-sourced' to some incompetent, but very expensive, organisation with a lot of ex - CCs on the Board.
For comparison (and invoking Godwin's Law) Hitler's party membership number was 555. Numbering commenced at 501.
 

Awol

LE
It speaks volumes about the Guardian that it’s headline gets more hysterical about the bloke belonging to a right wing organisation it disagrees with, than the fact he’s a nonce.
 
I vaguely recall that police officers either weren’t allowed to belong to a political party or weren’t allowed to be active in it. I might be wrong on that?

You are correct. You could not be a member of any party. Being such a member could result in dismissal. Attending a political meeting was frowned upon. A friend of mine was expressly ordered not to attend Labour party meetings. I suspect it would have been the same for any other party. It was the idea of political activity not the type of activity.

Please note I use the word : "was." At that time, up to the mid nineties, you were not allowed to live with a woman unless married. You had to ask permission to be married and your partners history was examined very carefully.

I have a sneaking suspicion things have changed.*

*You were also required to answer your front door in at least shirt sleeve order, maintain you garden to an approved standard and be on duty all the time. This latter caused a lot of problems for people in tied housing because the locals often turned up expecting service which you must provide ( failure to do so causing a raft of offences starting with neglect of duty).

I will say it again, I think things have changed. It would be good if a serving Constable could elaborate on this. Particularly the marriage thing and political activity.
 
I seem to remember that there was a tendency throughout this period to suggest that Waffen SS were honourable soldiers along with all the Wehrmacht. Honourable soldaten fighting a losing battle against the Red Army. It ranged from the media to such simple things like the Victor comic and Legion of the Damned.

It seems that only after the wall came down and dedicated German historians looked at the Heer in detail that the true barbarism of German behaviour in Russia was released to a wider public.

I was well and truly brainwashed at the time.
And after the wall came down, the peoples of Eastern Europe including the former Soviet annexed Baltic States revealed the true barbarism of Russian behaviour to a wider public. Old ladies in Riga relating how they had spent 15 years in the Gulags in Siberia and never saw their husbands and children again. A third of the populations of Latvia and Estonia deported and replaced with ethnic Russians.

And it was just two million German women from the ages of 8 to 80 who were raped by the Red Army. Thousands of women in Poland, Hungary and elsewhere were, including Russian and Ukranian women held in German labour camps.

And 20,000 Cossacks and their families forced back at the point of a bayonet to death and enslavement to the Red Army in Northern Italy by the British 8th Army in 1945.

But these were our gallant Soviet allies who liberated Eastern Europe and defeated Facism and got to sit in judgement at Nuremberg. Oh and don't forget the hundreds of thousands of Soviet prisoners of war who when liberated were sent straight to Siberia. Most of them only ended up as POWs due to Stalin's incompetence in 1941.

Before people start taking the moral high ground, they would do well to remember that there is 'no black and white, just different shades of grey'.
 

Awol

LE
If National Action are so dangerous and so prevalent, why haven’t it’s members simply rebranded as something else entirely that isn’t proscribed? The answer is that they are a non-entity who are only mentioned in the media to further demonise the entire right wing of British politics.

Without the occasional deployment of a terrifying bogeyman there is a danger that those with conservative leanings might be revealed as the caring, decent people they usually are.

And obviously, we can’t have that.
 
The Heer were no better than the SS.

They were both drawn from the same well.

Look at the von Reichenau Severity Order for an example.

The Waffen SS may have been slightly worse but that was just because they were nominally under the same management as the rest of the SS, the SD and the rest of Himmler's empire.
Depended a lot on their divisional commanders. Some Wehrmacht Generals were far more fanatical than some of the Waffen SS generals. They were all former WW1 Solders. Willi Bitterich commander of 2nd SS Panzer Korp in Operation Market Garden was a WW1 Fighter pilot.
 
Before people start taking the moral high ground, they would do well to remember that there is 'no black and white, just different shades of grey'.
I agree.

The only thing I would add is that from the start, the Germans appear to have given their units carte blanche to behave in a beastly manner, the Commissar edict and the lack of accountability for crimes against civilians being a good indicator of how they could be expected to behave in Russia.

I believe that the commanders of some German units ignored such instructions and that is to their credit.

If I were placed in the situations that many on both sides experienced, I have insufficient confidence in my own moral courage to say I would not behave in a similar manner.
 
For comparison (and invoking Godwin's Law) Hitler's party membership number was 555. Numbering commenced at 501.
The NSDAP was originally formed on the 1st January 1919 as the 'German Workers Party' (DAP), the political wing of the workers circle in Munich by Karl Harrer and Anton Drexler. Hitler was working as an undercover agent of the Reichwehr at the time, attended some of their meetings and although not impressed by their organisation, their right wing Anti-semitic stance appealed to them.

He joined in September 1919 and due to his undeniable qualities as an organiser, he was appointed to the executive committee as propaganda chief. He arranged for the name to be changed to the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP). The astute addition of the words 'national' and 'socialist' to the title was aimed at attracting members from both the left and right.
 
He’s a member of a proscribed organisation and the question has to be asked, was he joining the police just to be a policeman or was he in effect trying to gain some kind of advantage for his unlawful sponsors?

As to other groups on either side of the political spectrum, it’s a simple one really. In a job like being a police officer, the job comes first. Full stop.

That also includes what you do in your free time. As I understand it, if you are off duty, you still have your warrant card in your pocket.

I vaguely recall that police officers either weren’t allowed to belong to a political party or weren’t allowed to be active in it. I might be wrong on that?

During the course of my working career when I worked for a trade union, I came across a number of people belonging to things like the SWP and Militant Tendency etc. Their views on the police were that generally, the police were a part of the system. Something they wouldn’t want to be involved with.

So I think the problem of someone from the hard left joining the police service wasn’t ever likely to happen. That doesn’t mean that police officers wouldn’t be Labour voters. Some of them are. Despite some views expressed on arrse, it’s not unreasonable to do so if you agree with Labours manifesto.

Personally, I’d prefer my coppers to be middle of the road ordinary people who keep their political opinions away from the job. That’s how it should be and I think that’s what most police officers do.
Worked for a union you say? How come you've never mentioned it?
 
I believe that the commanders of some German units ignored such instructions and that is to their credit.
Including Sepp Dietrich commander of SS Motorised Brigade Leibstandarte, Paul Hausser commander of SS Motorised Division Reich and Felix Steiner commander of SS Motorised Division Wiking.

Paul Hauser while commander of the newly formed SS Panzer Korp (SS Panzergrenadier Division Leibstandarte, SS Panzergrenadier Division Das Reich and SS Panzergrenadier Division Totenkopf) avoided a second mini Stalingrad by refusing Hitlers order to stand and hold the city of Kharkov in southern Ukraine in February/March 1943. He broke out of the encirclement against the express orders of Hitler and the German High Command saying that "Its better that one SS General's neck is on the line than all my boys end up in a Soviet prison camp.

His troops were the only German strategic armoured reserve left. The Soviets had been rolling up the whole of the German front line in southern Russia/Ukraine since the fall of Stalingrad, but they had over extended themselves. Hausser regrouped, counter attacked and routed the Soviet armies. He then recaptured Kharkov amongst heavy street fighting.

Hitler sulked for a bit but eventually awarded Hausser the Oak Leaves to his Knights Cross. He was originally awarded the Knights Cross in 1941 at the age of 61 when he was leading SS Motorised Division Reich where he was also badly wounded, losing an eye.
 

Chef

LE
It doesn't say much for the vetting procedure if he managed to get in under the radar.

This from Amber Rudd in 2016:

'... a racist, antisemitic and homophobic organisation which stirs up hatred, glorifies violence and promotes a vile ideology.'

Could apply to many parties, BLM and the Labour Party tick those boxes to a greater or lesser degree.

This is interesting:

' As well as charges of belonging to or professing to belong to National Action between 17 December 2016 and 1 January 2018, contrary to the Terrorism Act 2000, he has also been charged with fraud offences along with possessing an indecent photograph of a child.'

'Are you now or have you ever been a member of the communist party?'

Also an indecent photo of a child? I don't doubt the charge but usually when paedophiles are arrested their photo collections seem to number in the tens to hundreds of thousands.
 

NSP

LE
I will say it again, I think things have changed. It would be good if a serving Constable could elaborate on this. Particularly the marriage thing and political activity.
Clearly political activity is permitted, given the number of constables needing to brush dirt off of one of their trouser legs who have apparently been subject to no sanction.
 
There was a PC in a Northern Force who was a BNP member. It never affected his work and nobody knew about it, but he was outed when 'Dope not Hope' or one of those Leftie groups hacked into the BNP's membership base, and he was sacked.

There was a bus driver in Sheffield or somewhere who was also sacked for BNP membership. He take his case to the ECHR and won due to the fact it interfered with right to free association as the BNP was a legal party.

I always wondered how that worked out. Does police policy override the ECHR. Hmm, I wonder.
 

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