Message to the Taliban - Dont Mess with the Paras

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#21
Midnight,

Or perhaps 3 Para will rely on training, experience, agression and good skills and drills. Some posters seem to forget that Para Regt have actually been at least as busy as the rest of the infantry in recent years and so have worked hard on all of the above. Just a thought.....
 
#23
Could be Stanley County Durham, you'd be a fool not to walk round in pairs there!
 
#24
More Jingoistic crap from the papers.

"Midnight" If you have anything constructive to say about 2 Paras tactics in NI I can put you in touch with some of the Warrenpoint survivors and you can debrief them in person. Maybe you can start off with how unlucky they were to drive past a bomb meant for the Royal Marines. I am sure that they will have a few words in return.

Afghanistan, just another operation and I am sure that whoever follows 3 Para will do just as well.

In the meantime lets support them and allow them to crack on with the job.

TB, any chance of stretching the forces any further?
 
#25
The Firemen are waiting to go on strike again Sandfly, maybe we should stick brooms up our arrses and sweep the roads while were at it eh?
 
#27
There are a lot more units than the paras going out there . The whole army has known about this deployment for months how
come its only getting in the press now ? Whos going on OP HERIC 2 ?
 
#28
sandfly said:
More Jingoistic crap from the papers.

"Midnight" If you have anything constructive to say about 2 Paras tactics in NI I can put you in touch with some of the Warrenpoint survivors and you can debrief them in person. Maybe you can start off with how unlucky they were to drive past a bomb meant for the Royal Marines. I am sure that they will have a few words in return.

Afghanistan, just another operation and I am sure that whoever follows 3 Para will do just as well.

In the meantime lets support them and allow them to crack on with the job.

TB, any chance of stretching the forces any further?
Talk to the guys who tried unsuccessfully, to warn them of their attitude in NITAT.Moving men in numbers in soft skinned vehicles in view of the border,is irresponsible whichever cap-badge you´re wearing,and against the SOP´s of the time to protect against RPG attacks ie no vehicles within 1000 meters of the border.

That the follow up force chose the only piece of cover,a ruin, to congregate behind was against all the principles taught in reaction to bomb attacks,it wasn´t the first come-on or secondry device that had been tried,it was the first that caused high losses.

I was in NI at the time in Belcoo,I just wished they´d shown the pictures released in the Irish press in mainland UK,it would have rocked the government of the day into a much more aggressive stand against the murdering IRA.

I also wish 3 Para and all other troops all the best in Afghanistan.
 
#29
Point taken, but, troops were moving by vehicle in that particular area all the time, including rover ptls

Inter unit/location moves were also carried out by vehicle, hence A Coy 2 Para moving down that particular road on that day.

Those decisions are made at Brigade not unit level.

Taking cover in the only bit of obvious cover available? Weve all done it, you dont always get away with it....

Roll on the Revolution...
 
#32
midnight said:
I really hate it when jingoism gets to the military,Don´t mess with theParas etc.Why?

In 1979 2 Para trained for a tour in NI in Sennelager, full of themselves in the belief that the IRA wouldn´t even consider targetting them, they ignored the basic drills of deploying in allround defense at stops and refused to go to cover believing that their red beret was bullet-proof,young 18 yr old squddies will believe what their ill informed NCO´s tell them.Sadly we all know what happened in August 1979!

A few years later the Paras fought magnificently during the Falklands War,and re-earned their reputation as a professional fighting force second to none.A high morale is a pre-requisite for good soldiering,but when soldiers start to believe their own myths,it starts to get very dangerous.

The enemy they will be facing in Afghanistan´s Helmland fear nobody,not even God,though the history books tell us they respect the Gurkhas.I´m sure 3 Para will do extremely well,but if they rely on their reputation or on myth,they will surely suffer high casualties.

Their enemy will not give up their way of life,however repugnant it seems to us,without a fierce struggle;They think nothing of killing their own relatives if provoked.

I sincerely hope that the result of the operation will be achieved with low casualties;However there has been so much debate and speculation that the army cannot rely on surprise.There should be a stop on reporting,and journalists banned from being there,let them in when the shooting stops,if at all.
Some valid points. But I will give an example where reputation paid off (to my belief): My first NI tour (artillery) was with incident. My second tour (artillery supporting Royal Marines) without. My brother's NI tour (Royal Marine) was without. Both of my tours were as per NITAT. Marines and Paras are the first in and you cannot expect them to combat every situation if they have to think about a trial before taking action - they are the first to really assess the situation on the ground. Of course, basic principles are vital for survival - but so is the enemy knowing that they are not operating within certain boundaries.
 
#33
Chaz,I was referring to the negative effects of `Gems`,like-Don´t mess around with the Paras-the trouble being that some soldiers,especially the younger more impressionable ones tend to believe the hype and forget their drills, thinking that the enemy are for some reason afraid of them.

Certain Regts tended to be more targetted than others,Paras because of Bloody Sunday,Jocks because a lot of Ulsters Protestant population were Scots descendents;Their reputations didn´t stop them being blown up or shot.

The Afghans won´t give a flying F*ck for anybody´s reputation or beret colour,until maybe after they´ve met them in battle.Esprit de Corps might help you go that bit further,I agree,but don´t expect that this enemy who kicked the Russians arrses, reads about Arnhem or Mt Longdon.

The legal side of this should never have been hovering over their heads at any time,it´s wrong and stupid to believe that soldiers will hesitate to fire if threatened,If no reporters are allowed in,no news gets out.
 
#34
what about Arnhem or Mt Longdon? Parachute Regiment soldiers are arrogant, they are trained in such a manner, They are light shock troops. In fast and fight hard. Arnhem and Mt Longdon are examples of Arrogant highly trained soldiers doing their best against the odds. Goose Green was another example. I tend not read books on battles unless is was written from soldiers who were there. Its best to talk to the guys that did the Job. The last Arnhem vet I spoke to was WO2 PB Makenzie MM. despite being in a wheelchair and suffering from Parkinson's. I still sew that stubborn arrogant streak in a man who was once a Paratrooper when explaining his role in the that battle. As for Warren point. there was not only members of 2 Para in that explosion are you tarring them with the same brush?. However you could always point your questions to guys who were there at the time. Im sure you will receive an arrogant response
http://pages.123-reg.co.uk/eve3-37327/exparachuteregimentampairbornewebsite/id150.html
 
#35
Now now children.

Fact is our boys are off to fight the hun in some god forsaken poo hole, so lets agree that they are the best available, and wish them all the luck and give them all our support. may they fight well and come home safe.

if the fire service kick off in the mean time, we of arrse can go round and give 'em as sound kicking then nick their fire engines and do it ourselves.

Rincewind
 
#36
Rincewind - agreed.
Lets support the guys deploying out there; lets also not forget that it is not just the Paras deploying....
Post topics such as 'Don't mess with the Paras' only serve to invite spurious digs against different capbadges.
All I would say is 'Remember Para X, thou are but human'.
 
#37
Yeah ok fartsac granted (BTW who else is going?)...
.....just remember the last time the purple heads were in the Stan they shot up a wedding party (just like a bunch of raw recruit septics), anyone remember the day? U guessed it, anniversary of Bloody Sunday. Not trying to stir up old news/bad blood etc (already done that i guess), but with the Bosnia/Stan scenario (Peace Keeping/Enforcing or Stabilisation roles) the Paras are inherently UNsuitable. As has been discussed above, they are shock troops used in warfighting, they are arrogant, aggressive, but highly effective fighting soldiers, and bugger all use in this role - I really hope they prove otherwise!
Don't get me wrong, I haven't got anything against them, they are very good at getting into a scrap ( :wink: ), but they should not try and put themselves above everyone else when it comes to all round soldiering; they're just as good as most other batallions out there.

Let's hear it for the 2nd Tier of the Army!! :)
 
#38
Rogue Trooper, you an authority on Peace Keeping Operations? What gives you the right to slag off any units "fit for role" with regards to any operation pal?

Armchair Experts.

Two a penny...
 
#40
Well its not really a peace keeping role in the part of Afganistan they are deploying is it .
There air mobile and a lot of the areas they will be operating in require air mobility
 

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