Mess silver and other corps questions

Discussion in 'Royal Signals' started by polar, Jun 16, 2009.

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  1. My old Sqn is being shut down. Its had a long life as it was formed in Sheffield (8/11/1860) and so it has a lot of mess silver (more than it's current regiment).

    My understanding is this will be returned to the donor or will be sent onto the corps for safe keeping - i.e. it wouldn't go to the new regiment or squadron (sqn doesn't have a mess/club).

    As the TA cull is hitting many old sqn's and the corps will obviously make a windfall in silver. Also what's the rule about a regiment disbanding and one of its Sqn staying - do they get the silver (my 1st sentence would indicate the Sqn gets the silver - as it's happened previously)

    Do rules or precedence still exist for for numbering Sqns? i.e. a newbie unit (1939+) remains at the expense of an historical part of the corps?

    Similar question about troops, I read in Cliff Lord/Graham Watson's book on the corps that troop titles are issued in series e.g. for TA 700->799 trunk, 800->899 comcen & 900-999 originally WRAC troops (roles not exactly correct). So names like X/Y/Z, old sqn no. or 'Rugby' troop doesn't fall in with corps guidelines.

  2. You say the Corps will make a windfall in Silver, but it is currently sadly lacking any of any merit.

    I borrowed 3 pieces for a function earlier this year, pretty much all they had, and they were small and not in best condition (due to age), there wasn't even a 'Jimmy' available.

    I think the Corps mess would appreciate any extra silver it can get it's hands on. At least they would look after it and would be a boon to visitors and displays for Corps functions. It would also ensure acknowledgement of your sqn's history as any presentation could be accompanied by a suitable write-up that could be displayed with the silver in question.
  3. Was that a Normandy Dinner night WhiteRover?
  4. Yes it was
  5. I think as a good starting base, Service Funds Regulations Chapter 17 (Dealing with disbandments) may help.

    Your Corps Headquarters/CVHQ for your Cap Badge should also be consulted.
  6. When we expected disbandment under SDR (we survived in the end) we prepared for this by placing the Bty property in the care of a trust so we would have control of its destiny.
  7. HAH!
  8. Expect a number of polar bears.
  9. This is really important. When the 1967 Carver-Hackett massacre happened there were some serious moves by MOD to grab the lot on the grounds that it was property of units which had been disbanded and thus had no further owner. When the squadrons came out of AVR III and suspended animation the silver, paintings etc were still under unit control and hadn't been flogged off for pennies. :evil:
  10. I was the person responsible for closing down the Messes in 1 ADSR in'94.
    If memory serves me correctly all property that has been presented to the mess is still owned by the donor and their wishes as to the disposal of the property should be obtained. If this is not possible then the current membership of the Mess can decide on its future. The latter also is the same for property puchased by the Mess. In 1ADSR certain items were given to the Corps and others auctioned off by the Mess. The only drawback to the auction is that past members of the Mess are entitled to bid. Hope this helps.
  11. We're at cross-purposes. As I recall from talking to those around at the time, the issue in the 1960s was that much of the silver and other property was presented to 'the regiment', rather than 'the officers' mess'. Most is Victorian or Edwardian and some goes back to Napoleononic times. Talking to those involved at the time the MOD's approach seemed to be very much that, when the regiment went, and given that those who presented the stuff were mostly very long dead, MOD alone would inherit.
  12. Firstly in response to the first issue you raised. The silver is the property of your mess so you can do with it what you want. When 22 & 13 Sigs were disbanded in the 90s they donated some of the old mess kit to various regiments and no doubt now that 22 Sigs has re-formed they are back in possession. However placing the silver in the safe keeping of the Corps is not unheard of and I really don't forsee a problem with this as should you require it again all you have to do is ask!

    I too have read the book and it a lot of the current ORBAT of the Corps does not conform and the main reasons for this is personalities. I am at a unit where the old OC changed the names of the troops that has no historical links with the unit.