Mess seating plan by seniority substantive date or appointment?

Discussion in 'Seniors' started by Signaller..., May 15, 2013.

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  1. Quick debate and if anyone can quote official doctrine supporting your view please do so.


    For formal mess dinners, how should the seating plan be arranged i.e. who should be seated higher up the table when both people are of same rank. The more substantive senior SSgt (more time served as a staffy) or the higher appointment SSgt (but less time served as a staffy)?

    I have seen different seating plans over the years and it amuses me that it seems to be down to the PEC's discretion and all the arguments that follow!
  2. Put a Flight Sgt above a WO2 and watch the sparks fly. Alternatively, put the Flight Sgt with 1 year service below a SSgt with 2 years service and stand back.
  3. Flyingrockdj

    Flyingrockdj War Hero Moderator

    seniority of appointments in rank first, ASM, RQMS, TQMS, CSM, Cheif clerk, Other WO2. SQMS, ORQMS, other SSGTS and so on

    Or only have a seating plan for the top table and let people sit where they like!
  4. Seating should be by staff appointments in rank higher than no staff appointment. CSM is not an appointment despite many people thinking it is.
  5. Seniority by substantive date in rank. By appointment? Hadaway! The only exception is that it's customary to put the RSM at the middle of the top table, even though he's probably a sprog.
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  6. You would like to think an ASM sits higher than an RQMS....
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  7. I've never heard of Corps seniority ever being a factor. Am sure that if that were the case I would have seen it in action in at least one of the Gunner Messes that Ive served in
  8. interested to hear where they sat you then? obviously the gunners are more senior to most cap badges so unless you're cavalry or armored corps you should have been lower than your in-house cohort?
  9. SSM's and CSM's.... i always thought they waiter-ed on us?
  10. It's all in QR - being at home and not being a nerd with a copy I can't quote directly, but I researched this for a Sgts Mess function at a Tri-Service unit.

    Presiding Member, PMC and Mr Vice have their seats allocated first.

    Then it's by Rank according to Service, within service it is SUBSTANTIVE Rank by earliest date, then ACTING by date, then LOCAL by date:
    RN WO > RM WO1 > Army WO1 > RAF WO (OR9)
    RN WO2 > RM WO2 > Army WO2 (OR8 )
    RN CPO>RM CSgt>Army SSgt/CSgt whatever>RAF FS OR RAF CT (OR7) - watch out for the crabs here, they will insist that FS is a higher rank than CT but they're full of shit so take a copy of QRs, point out that being a higher pay band does not equate to a higher rank regardless of what they think, then enjoy your free drinks from some grumpy old RN WO Stoker who thinks it's the funniest thing ever to watch the pencil neck junior service bleat
    RN PO>RM Sgt>Army Sgt>RAF Sgt

    You obviously may have some guys of the same rank/service/seniority date still to sort out. In that case it is by REGIMENTAL/CORPS seniority for the Army, if they are the same cap badge or service then it is ALPHABETICALLY as Sgt Adams was on the Promotion List before Sgt Young etc.

    Remember at all times, get a copy of QRs, do the table list, explain to the Presiding Member and PMC how you have done the list, give him a copy and when they (as they inevitably will) moan, tell them to **** off and speak to the Presiding Member about it.

    Also, if you have anyone from the HAC, remember they are last in precedence and do not sit with the RA or RHA.

    Hope this helps.
    • Like Like x 6
  11. This helps a lot. Thanks.
  12. So clearly appointment doesn't matter? Other than the RSM
  13. HAC are not quite last, (in regular company) they come before the GS Corps, TA Regts that don't have a regular element (eg Yeomanry and LONDONS) and colonial types such as the Gibraltar Regiment.
  14. It's all OR7 though so it isn't a promotion in RANK, it's a movement across paybands, for example if (and I am clutching at straws here to find an example, but it might have happened at some point) a REME SSgt Artisan passed an Artificer course he would move lower to higher pay band but didn't move RANKS, or a R.SIGS bod in trade did his Yeomans course etc etc

    UKDS 2011 - Chapter 2 - Personnel refers
    • Like Like x 1
  15. msr

    msr LE

    Or alternatively join a unit where enjoying a formal function takes precedence over some ludicrously arcane rules and regulations.
    • Like Like x 3