MERS Coronavirus warning

[Ortholith]

She's right about 'being reported' too. There's not only a virus that's infecting British society.

COVID seems to have been a godsend for the nosy opinionated gobshites who look for any excuse to stick their nose into other people's business. We had an email from someone last week demanding that we stop parents parking on the road they live on as they are a key worker and it's inconvenient for them.

 

[terminal]

Sorry l don’t have graphs, but here in Canada there has only been 12 cases of influenza between March and October. For the 6 previous years the average number was 600 during the same calendar period, so l would say anti-covid measures indeed make a difference.

I posted a news story about low numbers of flu cases this year about a week and a half ago, so this shouldn't be new to anyone following this thread closely.

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/mers-coronavirus-warning.214505/post-10386973

Flu is down 97% in Canada despite testing for it more than doubling. It's down 93% in Australia, and 99.8% in New Zealand. Health experts said that the measures being used to control COVID-19 are also very effective on seasonal flu.

If flu is also down in the UK by similar amounts, then the UK results are in line with what is happening in the rest of the world.

 

[Ortholith]

I posted a news story about low numbers of flu cases this year about a week and a half ago, so this shouldn't be new to anyone following this thread closely.

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/mers-coronavirus-warning.214505/post-10386973

Flu is down 97% in Canada despite testing for it more than doubling. It's down 93% in Australia, and 99.8% in New Zealand. Health experts said that the measures being used to control COVID-19 are also very effective on seasonal flu.

If flu is also down in the UK by similar amounts, then the UK results are in line with what is happening in the rest of the world.

I haven't looked into the details. The WHO graph posted earlier is not all flu cases, just those from a very small sample of reporting doctors. The same pattern of 'zero flu cases' has been seen in the last 4 years when I checked.

There are still a large number of deaths from influenza and pneumonia in the UK (an average of 1951 per week this year until 16th July when the ONS data stops). I haven't looked up the previous 5 year average for a comparison, that might happen later this week if I get bored and have enough spare time.

 

[terminal]

I understand that. I do not understand how barrier methods can be successful in eradicating influenza as you suggested a few posts back and yet COVID infections are still increasing.

Either barrier methods reduce viral infection or they don't. That would not be a fair comparison between COVID and polio but given influenza and COVID are spread the same way, are a similar size etc. it seems a reasonable point.

Some diseases are more infectious than others. Breathing in a single virus particle doesn't necessarily lead to becoming infected. Instead it's a numbers game, with the degree of infectiousness of the virus combined with how much you inhale (or ingest, or absorb, or whatever) determining your chances of becoming infected.

It is also believed that difference strains of the COVID-19 virus have differing degrees of infectiousness. The early strains were less infectious, but a mutation increased the number of "spikes" on the surface of the virus, increasing the likelihood of it penetrating into cells, and so making it more infectious. There were a number of posts on this thread about this several months ago. The strain of COVID-19 virus that first turned up in Wuhan for example is believed to have been much less infectious than strain hit Italy.

 

[Ortholith]

Some diseases are more infectious than others. Breathing in a single virus particle doesn't necessarily lead to becoming infected. Instead it's a numbers game, with the degree of infectiousness of the virus combined with how much you inhale (or ingest, or absorb, or whatever) determining your chances of becoming infected.

It is believed that difference strains of the COVID-19 virus have differing degrees of infectiousness. The early strains were less infectious, but a mutation increased the number of "spikes" on the surface of the virus, increasing the likelihood of it penetrating into cells, and so making it more infections. There were a number of posts on this thread about this several months ago. The strain of COVID-19 virus that first turned up in Wuhan for example is believed to have been much less infectious than strain hit Italy.

I understand all of that. The graph that was posted appeared to show flu had totally disappeared after April. I thought I was quite clear that I would expect a decrease in flu deaths with all of the factors involved (less interpersonal contact, mask wearing, social distancing, vulnerable people dying from COVID etc.) but for flu to disappear totally was not plausible.

That graph was showing 'sentinel' cases, not total cases as I've stated before. The same pattern is seen every year. It's not a COVID effect, it's an artifact of a very limited sample and a seasonal disease.

My point still stands, influenza and COVID are spread the same way. If methods are effective at completely eliminating one disease then they should eliminate the other at the same time. That is not the case and both diseases still exist in the population.

Edit - to put it another way, the current measures would probably have reduced the incidence of smallpox if that was still a disease in circulation. The graph posted that I responded to would appear to suggest there were zero smallpox cases whereas in reality it would show that fewer than 5% of doctors had seen a smallpox case.

 

[terminal]

Who knew that being totally divorced from reality was a symptom on covid?

I would be fascinated to know as to where he thinks he's going to get the trained staff for all that.

One of the major hospitals where I am (in Canada) has had to effectively shut down and stop accepting new admissions in the past few days, as they are fighting a COVID-19 outbreak in the hospital itself. They do cardiac surgery, organ transplants, and that sort of thing for the entire region. The infections are taking out both staff and patients. Needless to say, this isn't doing their treatment schedules any good.

Other hospitals in other parts of the province and in other provinces have been been having the same problems as well. They all have increased infection control measures in place, but it's a hard virus to stop and it only takes one case to get through and you have a hospital outbreak.

 

[terminal]

I understand all of that. The graph that was posted appeared to show flu had totally disappeared after April. I thought I was quite clear that I would expect a decrease in flu deaths with all of the factors involved (less interpersonal contact, mask wearing, social distancing, vulnerable people dying from COVID etc.) but for flu to disappear totally was not plausible.

That graph was showing 'sentinel' cases, not total cases as I've stated before. The same pattern is seen every year. It's not a COVID effect, it's an artifact of a very limited sample and a seasonal disease.

My point still stands, influenza and COVID are spread the same way. If methods are effective at completely eliminating one disease then they should eliminate the other at the same time. That is not the case and both diseases still exist in the population.

Edit - to put it another way, the current measures would probably have reduced the incidence of smallpox if that was still a disease in circulation. The graph posted that I responded to would appear to suggest there were zero smallpox cases whereas in reality it would show that fewer than 5% of doctors had seen a smallpox case.

The control measures haven't totally eliminated either seasonal flu or COVID-19. They have just reduced them from what they would otherwise be. As the figures in the story I mentioned indicate, while flu is down 93% to 99% in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, it hasn't disappeared altogether.

There is more COVID-19 than there is flu, but COVID-19 appears to be more infectious than flu.

 

[Ortholith]

The control measures haven't totally eliminated either seasonal flu or COVID-19. They have just reduced them from what they would otherwise be. As the figures in the story I mentioned indicate, while flu is down 93% to 99% in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, it hasn't disappeared altogether.

There is more COVID-19 than there is flu, but COVID-19 appears to be more infectious than flu.

I know. That was the whole point of the post you quoted.

 

[terminal]

There has been some previous mention of testing wastewater (sewage) for COVID-19 to monitor for its presence in populations. Several Canadian universities are about to try this on an experimental basis in Ottawa, Toronto, and Edmonton to monitor individual care homes.
Canadian researchers turn to wastewater tests at long-term care homes to detect COVID hotspots
Presently care homes are monitored using conventional swab tests on a regular basis. By monitoring the sewage, this will allow more frequent testing with less likelihood of missing anyone, allowing for faster intervention.

 

[terminal]

The border closure in Canada has been extended again, as expected. The border closure was brought in during March and has been extended regularly since then.
Ottawa extends international travel restrictions citing COVID-19 risk

 

[irlsgt]

The control measures haven't totally eliminated either seasonal flu or COVID-19. They have just reduced them from what they would otherwise be. As the figures in the story I mentioned indicate, while flu is down 93% to 99% in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, it hasn't disappeared altogether.

There is more COVID-19 than there is flu, but COVID-19 appears to be more infectious than flu.

And more deadly

 

[Humble Tiller]

And more deadly

You little ray of sunshine, you.

 

[JCC]

The PCR False Positive Pseudo-Epidemic – Lockdown Sceptics

by Dr Mike Yeadon How a novel virus met a partly-immune population In Spring 2020 a novel coronavirus swept across the world: novel, but related to other viruses. In the UK, unknown at the time, around 50% of the population were already immune. The evidence for this is unequivocal and arose due...

lockdownsceptics.org

 

[JCC]

The second wave appears to have peaked before lockdown | The Spectator

It was only four weeks ago that Boris Johnson plunged Britain into a second lockdown. The Prime Minister, flanked by Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance, said that he could not ignore the modelling. Deaths, the Prime Minister explained, could reach ‘several thousand a day’, with a ‘peak of...

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[PhotEx]

Hmmmm.... I wonder why Nottingham has such a high WuFlu rate?

Police break up a party of 200 rowdy students at rave in Nottingham

Investigations are ongoing into the incident, after officers were called to St Peter's Court in Radford, Nottingham, on Saturday night. Hundreds of students were enjoying a rave.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[ches]

Hmmmm.... I wonder why Nottingham has such a high WuFlu rate?

Police break up a party of 200 rowdy students at rave in Nottingham

Investigations are ongoing into the incident, after officers were called to St Peter's Court in Radford, Nottingham, on Saturday night. Hundreds of students were enjoying a rave.

www.dailymail.co.uk

There really are still far too many morons on the loose. Case in point...

Mate of mine, one of their gaffers (in a non essential work sector & have never closed or given staff who can, the capability of WFH) has tested positive for covid on Friday. Staff have been told not to self isolate, get tested if they feel ill & then stay home if positive. Unbelievable attitude from the ******* & the workforce are all equally fearful of raising any concerns.....me i'd easy call the grass em up hotline. Back in the summer when Spain was on the quarantine list another of the gaffers came back straight into the office, chinned off quarantine & cracked on. Someone on the return flight tested positive via track & trace, he was laughing about it. Staff were on tenterhooks waiting for someone to go down with it. Been no checks, enquiries or individual risk assessments of staff & their dependents to see if anyone is in the at risk categories or in a bubble with same.

 

[RedDinger]

Covid-19: Drinkers in tier two 'could order Scotch egg' as substantial meal​

Environment Secretary George Eustice told LBC Radio that Scotch eggs would constitute such a meal "if there were table service".
Downing Street has not ruled out tier two drinkers being able to order a Scotch egg, but would not set out the difference between a snack and a meal.
The Prime Minister's official spokesman said: "I'm obviously not going to get into the detail of every possible meal.
"But we've been clear: bar snacks do not count as a substantial meal but it's well established practice in the hospitality industry what does."

I wonder how they are going to police this if there are no clear guidelines then? Does a bag of crisps served on a plate count as a meal?

 

[Whey_Aye_Banzai]

I would be fascinated to know as to where he thinks he's going to get the trained staff for all that.

Same place we got them last time around. Plus the military ones too.

Coronavirus: Tens of thousands of retired medics asked to return to NHS

More than 65,000 ex-doctors and nurses are asked to help tackle the "greatest global health threat in history".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Electromagnetic]

Covid-19: Drinkers in tier two 'could order Scotch egg' as substantial meal​

I wonder how they are going to police this if there are no clear guidelines then? Does a bag of crisps served on a plate count as a meal?

Irrelevant in Wales from Friday where serving alcohol in pubs is now verboten. Alcohol Banned in All Welsh Pubs, 6pm Hospitality Curfew Brought In

 

[Berlin_104s]

There really are still far too many morons on the loose. Case in point...

Mate of mine, one of their gaffers (in a non essential work sector & have never closed or given staff who can, the capability of WFH) has tested positive for covid on Friday. Staff have been told not to self isolate, get tested if they feel ill & then stay home if positive. Unbelievable attitude from the ******* & the workforce are all equally fearful of raising any concerns.....me i'd easy call the grass em up hotline. Back in the summer when Spain was on the quarantine list another of the gaffers came back straight into the office, chinned off quarantine & cracked on. Someone on the return flight tested positive via track & trace, he was laughing about it. Staff were on tenterhooks waiting for someone to go down with it. Been no checks, enquiries or individual risk assessments of staff & their dependents to see if anyone is in the at risk categories or in a bubble with same.

Wanchors, out!

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