Army Rumour Service

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

MERS Coronavirus warning

And that's with full lockdown implemented and single digit infection rates in the population.
Not the argument ending statement it sounds like. Once you get past cancer, heart disease and respiratory illness the number of deaths drops massively. A bit like saying a country has the 7th largest army in the world, once you get past the Chinese, Russians, US and North Koreans it's all a bit irrelevant.



Knew I'd posted it somewhere recently - Deaths involving COVID-19, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics is the source for the data. I haven't checked to see if it's been updated for the July data yet.

Edit - in the interests of transparency those are deaths with COVID mentioned on the death certificate.
 
She says the flu and other viruses can cause long term complications, yet we don't close down our economy for those.

That's strange - having seen her speak a couple of times, I'd have expected the discussion to be a bit unpacked than that (via Zoom rather than in person, given the current times).

Also a quick google seems to say that many of the criticisms are because she doesn't address that particular avenue.
 
Not the argument ending statement it sounds like. Once you get past cancer, heart disease and respiratory illness the number of deaths drops massively. A bit like saying a country has the 7th largest army in the world, once you get past the Chinese, Russians, US and North Koreans it's all a bit irrelevant.



Knew I'd posted it somewhere recently - Deaths involving COVID-19, England and Wales - Office for National Statistics is the source for the data. I haven't checked to see if it's been updated for the July data yet.

Well not sure it's an argument ending statement, as I think we need look at alternative ways to full lockdown too - I think the article I posted previously has nailed it, in that we think about adjusting lockdown in percentages etc.
 
Last edited:
This is great news for those who think herd immunity is part of the right strategy.

A recap of the discussion was that the vaccine initially will be in short supply and will be strategically dished out and @lastwalt thought that kids would be last to be given it and that it could be a year away before they even started giving it to children.

I thought that sounded like a good idea and during that year children would get the corona' and develop immunity, further enhancing herd immunity. Children are at almost no risk; flu has killed more kids this year than the corona' (I can provide good evidence if anyone wants it).

Keep in mind that we know corona is safe for kids, but it won't be known (possibly ever known) if the vaccine is safer than the corona for children.
I see you’ve resorted to making stuff up again.
 
That's strange - having seen her speak a couple of times, I'd have expected the discussion to be a bit unpacked than that (via Zoom rather than in person, given the current times).

Also a quick google seems to say that many of the criticisms are because she doesn't address that particular avenue.

She said that flu and other viruses cause long term complications and we don't shut the economy down for that.

100%.

Question Time.
 
@lastwalt @Whey_Aye_Banzai any chance of taking what increasingly feels like a personal argument somewhere else? You both make good points but it's starting to feel like one of the brexit threads in here.
 
She said that flu and other viruses cause long term complications and we don't shut the economy down for that.

100%.

Question Time.


That's weird because we already know the death rates for flu/covid are not the same (higher for COVID), then we cannot make the same claim that the long term effect rates are the same - disappointed she's making false equivalence. This might be why she's not involved in the decision making (unlike the author of the tabloid piece I posted) - Oxbridge research, scientists etc are usually on top of their game, but there are also crackpots - look at the nonsense Susan G was coming out with about screen culture etc.
 
Last edited:
That's weird because we already know the death rates for flu/covid are not the same (higher for COVID)

Not for children or young people it's not. Flu - regular influenza - has killed more than covid this year.

You want evidence? Take a look at the list of studies on Prof Bhopal's open letter in the BMJ; he cites three studies showing this.

This is Prof Gupta's outline for a solution:

 
Not for children or young people it's not. Flu - regular influenza - has killed more than covid this year.

You want evidence? Take a look at the list of studies on Prof Bhopal's open letter in the BMJ; he cites three studies showing this.

This is Prof Gupta's outline for a solution:



Interesting, well it will be interesting to see if the data indicates they are the same in terms of longterm complications. The clinicians I'm currently working with who see patients do not believe it is, but then again I'm more of a data driven person anyway - so I'd rather the numbers than anecdotes.
 
Interesting, well it will be interesting to see if the data indicates they are the same in terms of longterm complications. The clinicians I'm currently working with who see patients do not believe it is, but then again I'm more of a data driven person anyway - so I'd rather the numbers than anecdotes.

Imagine 10k or 30k or 40k people have long term consequences from long covid; say they're ill on average for 6 to 8 months.

I still don't think that's a reason to shut down the economy. I think the harm that causes - particularly to the young - would be disproportionate.

And Prof Gupta says we can't control the virus. Gieseke says the same, btw. The best we can do is slow it down till the economic pain becomes untenable, and there it is again.

Some seem to think that a vaccine will solve all this. Prof Bhopal says it's not going to. Children etc.

I think as time goes on, the herd immunity strategy (controlled, not 'let rip') while protecting the vulnerable (in as many clever ways as we can), will be where we end up.
 
Imagine 10k or 30k or 40k people have long term consequences from long covid; say they're ill on average for 6 to 8 months.


Ah I'm thinking along the lines of permanently disabled - with brain injury. A lifetime injury basically, rather than just poorly for a few months. And the sufferers include the young. Apologies if I've not been clear there.

Although I'm not convinced the evidence is there for herd immunity - I'm also not keen on destroying our economy with lockdown either.
 
Ah I'm thinking along the lines of permanently disabled - with brain injury. A lifetime injury basically, rather than just poorly for a few months. And the sufferers include the young. Apologies if I've not been clear there.

Although I'm not convinced the evidence is there for herd immunity - I'm also not keen on destroying our economy with lockdown either.

Again, the numbers of serious long covid types as you describe would have to be massive to justify shutting down the economy to prevent this.

This was my understanding of long covid, btw:


A bit of tiredness and feeling rough.
 
Again, the numbers of serious long covid types as you describe would have to be massive to justify shutting down the economy to prevent this.

You keep mentioning about closing down the economy? Who is advocating closing down the economy?

A bit of tiredness and feeling rough.

Nah. Brain injury is what we're looking at all - although we do ask a little bit about fatigue, but thats a sign of brain inflammation (amongst other things) which is where the thing I mentioned before could be the pathway for alzheimers etc (similar to say concussion - where it's thought the inflammation after the impact is what leads to a chain of events which increases the risk of PD, AD etc). As I said before the lack of sense of smell without a blocked nose is a serious symptom - someone who works in that field told me that's usually associated with stroke.

Edit* Yeah, that panel in your link lacks anyone talking about the brain effects. Bit of an oversight really. Although a few published papers have written about the strong theoretical arguments for why this is important, but it's only just starting to be looked at now (though plenty of anecdotal examples around according to the people I've chatted with).

 
Last edited:
Hmm and Ba cabin crew in HK been banged up in quarantine as one of crew or pax tested positive. But the pilots were fine to fly back to blighty. It transpires the lovely lasses were ordered by medics to pack their shit up in 30 mins and escorted out of their hotel (probably with a little Force).


Cheers
CDA59809-9A23-426A-8F2A-A7E30BE89DC1.jpeg
8037D23D-2586-4734-9614-53183A72C35D.jpeg
D67EA2FE-F50E-4FEA-AE1E-CBE194622BB1.jpeg
C913E66C-B564-4BFB-A081-518EF071693E.jpeg
 

New Posts

Top