MERS Coronavirus warning

Apparently, as a result of analysing the UK’s covid deaths, it turns out that 23% of people in the UK who died of covid didn’t die of covid.


Updated numbers from the U.K. Office for National Statistics show that 23% of registered COVID-19 deaths are people who died “with” the virus but not “from” infection. While the patients may have tested positive for COVID-19 at the time of their death, the virus itself was not the primary cause.

This seems to confirm what many on here thought.

That's interesting. As I think we just found our flu season.
 
Given that no-one has died of Flu since last March, RTC deaths are down, workplace deaths are down, and other causes are up, etc etc - why not KISS knowing that the deep dive into the specifics will happen down the line?
Where do you get the idea that no one has died of flu? Not a dig, I'm just wondering if it's the reason I think it is.
 

Chocolate93

Old-Salt
The original posts from 2013 and 14 are shocking and accurate, can't understand why we didn't make a vaccine based on those details alone, seems like everyone had a vague idea, obviously no antibodies would of been possible in 13 to 14 if no one had the virus.

Also we could of all started saving more for something like this if we knew it was deffinately going to happen, medical facilities, the government etc. Economy would of been hit less bad with several crisis funds Avalible.
 

PappaBear08

Old-Salt
Where do you get the idea that no one has died of flu? Not a dig, I'm just wondering if it's the reason I think it is.

Whilst 394 deaths from flu (as opposed to the 506 with flu) is not none, as far as the UK genpop goes, it practically is when taken against the average 17k that die from it annually.

Flu deaths in UK 2020

The control measures for covid seem to have been effective in cutting flu deaths massively.
 

PappaBear08

Old-Salt
I think the point is that people will argue back and forth over how to count the number of COVID-19 deaths because of the factors you listed. If for example more people die from DIY accidents because they had to stay home, are those COVID-19 deaths? If not then we need to subtract those from the excess deaths totals if we want to find out how many people died from COVID-19 but were never diagnosed as having had COVID-19 due to lack of testing or some other reason.

If more people didn't die from flu, that reduces the overall rate of death that we would see in a normal year. How do we account for that, or should we?

You might have an opinion on this, but someone else might have a different opinion. These are the sorts of questions that will have to be thrashed out before a consensus is reached however.

Furthermore, since we were talking about international comparisons, what happens when other countries decide to adjust their numbers to take these sorts of factors into the account, but do so in a way that is different from how the UK or other countries do it. Someone will have to go through the raw data for each country and account for all of this before we can compare one country to another. That will be neither simpler nor easy.

That's why I said it will take a while after to come up with a conclusive answer, and ever then it will only be a good estimate.

Is that not the point of using the excess deaths figure for all cause mortality - there is no allowing for variances in individual causes that can be fiddled or have alternative causes assigned and because it encompasses many pandemic deaths not directly attributable to the virus itself.
The media have been using the numbers to beat the Govt with, a number of Govts have not produced accurate or honest figures around CoD but the overall ACM excess deaths figures can't be cheated that way and do provide a valid comparison that can be used...

Yes, it's a blunt instrument and it does simplify things greatly but given the disparities in death certificates and diagnoses (and the fiasco of inaccurate diagnoses too) I think it may well be the best figure we have that is easily understood by the great unwashed, the braindead media, and the politicians.
 
The original posts from 2013 and 14 are shocking and accurate, can't understand why we didn't make a vaccine based on those details alone, seems like everyone had a vague idea, obviously no antibodies would of been possible in 13 to 14 if no one had the virus.

Also we could of all started saving more for something like this if we knew it was deffinately going to happen, medical facilities, the government etc. Economy would of been hit less bad with several crisis funds Avalible.
The thread was started about a completely different disease, MERS, which is also the title. That disease got five posts.

Six years later someone tacked on news about a new and as yet unnamed disease on the other side of the world, thinking that it may possibly be related.

More than 22,000 posts later we are still talking about the biggest global crisis since WWII in a thread that has as its title a different topic altogether. ARRSE is known for its thread diversions, but this one has to be a record.

The reason why nobody started working on a vaccine for COVID-19 in 2014 is because the virus which causes it didn't exist until very late 2019 (which is where the "19" in COVID-19 comes from). Coronaviruses are a large family of viruses that affect mammals and birds. Their effects can range from mild to lethal, depending on the virus.

MERS is one of the more dangerous ones if you get it, but it seems to have limited ability to transmit between humans outside of places like hospitals. SARS was another one. COVID-19 is yet another one.

Some of the development work for vaccines we now have for COVID-19 was based on years of research done on creating vaccines for MERS, which were just starting to come out of the labs when COVID-19 hit. Some of the long term financing for the MERS vaccine work came from various Persian Gulf countries, as they had the most interest in it since you mainly get MERS from being around camels.

This meant that we weren't starting from zero in terms of knowledge when it came to developing a new vaccine for COVID-19, so people were doing something about it. It's just that COVID-19 isn't MERS, so they had to spend most of 2020 doing testing and developing mass production techniques for the new vaccines specific to COVID-19.

There is another coronavirus disease called Nipah which has been circulating around the area from Thailand to India for a few years. If it gets the right mutations to make it more infectious it could become the next pandemic. I don't know if anyone is working on a vaccine for it. The main problem with developing vaccines is finding someone to pay for the research and trials.
 

Chocolate93

Old-Salt
Those don't come cheap millions or billions surely, then you'd have transportation risks. Most covid vaccines have to kept in the fridge, brew dog have been opening coffee places for covid jabs and centers, lovely business.

Had never heard of Nipah either until now, and feel sorry for the camels also, loads must of died, sadly not much is done to save animals compared to humans.
 
That's interesting. As I think we just found our flu season.
As I and others have repeatedly posted on this thread - with citations previously (and I really can’t be arsed to dig them out, I’m tired and half a bottle of white in) provided.

There are three metrics used for recording deaths from this disease. The first is ‘Died within 28 days of a positive covid death’. This is a pretty crap way of measuring the deaths. There are a metric f*** ton of people who are admitted to hospital without a test being done because this disease for a lot of people means that they are severely f***ed up by the time they think ‘Hmmm, a test would be a good idea’ - or they would if their O2 levels were high enough to consider such thoughts at that point. Lots of others die of other reasons (even the mythical ‘hit by a bus’) within those 28 days.

But it is easy to record, provides a quick and easy way to look at how we are doing and how we compare to other countries.

Then there are where doctors (you know, those people with a f*** ton of training, experience and have spent about a year now learning the clinical symptoms of the disease) who are signing the death certificates and are fairly (yeah) qualified to state that a person either died of Covid, or it was a significant factor in death. A bit like my mum who died due to the shut down of her major organs from her diabetes and her blood sugars going utterly loopy (plus associated factors) - but that was only because her cancer caused such a chain of events. Strangely enough it was cancer on her death certificate - rather than diabetes.

This metric is higher in terms of deaths than the 28 days one, but is considered more accurate due to you know, we trust the clinicians.

Finally there is the excess death metric. This pretty much ties in with the death certificate one, even if the 28 day one is not agreeing then you can account for this confounding factor and accept that there will be an acceptable difference. If you were actually in the military then you should know that if three different sources are all agreeing then you should be paying attention.

And as has been stated previously influenza has a natural ‘R’ far lower than that of Covid - so the Non-Pharmaceutical Interventions brought in to stop granny, the cancer sufferers and a fair few others dying in terrifying respiratory distress have been found to be VERY effective in stopping influenza which is far less transmissible. If in following years we institute similar NPI’s we will see a similar level of influenza. We won’t because it is only about a tenth of the deaths WITHOUT those NPI’s - but maybe if we all start washing our hands and practising good hygiene then maybe we can cut that down a bit.

If this sounds angry - I have had about 3 beers and nearly a full bottle of white after a very long day on duty AND trying to learn a new skill set. And I had to try to answer a dumbass question from a journo from the Times because they were angling to make a story out of nothing. And I am f***ing tired.

Sorry.

Oh and just get your f***ing vaccine.
 
Here's the COVID-19 summary for Saturday.
Coronavirus: What's happening in Canada and around the world on Saturday

In Canada, the province of Alberta recorded their first confirmed case of a blood clot associated with the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine. It was in a man in his 60s. He has received treatment and is recovering. The head of public health in Alberta said that she continues to recommend that people over 55 get vaccinated with the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine as soon as they are able, as it is the best way to protect their own health and the health of those around them.
Alberta has confirmed its first case of a rare blood clot linked to the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine.

The case was identified in a man in his 60s after receiving the vaccine, according to a statement released by Alberta's chief medical officer of health on Saturday.

"I continue to recommend AstraZeneca for anyone who is 55 and older, and to recommend that all Albertans get vaccinated as soon as they are able," Dr. Deena Hinshaw said.

"It is the best way to protect your health and the health of those around you."

The man has received treatment and is recovering. The case marks only the second instance of the rare blood clot in Canada after more than 700,000 doses, Hinshaw said.

In Brazil, hospitals are running out of sedatives and are resorting to tying patients to their beds so they can shove breathing tubes down their throats.
In the Americas, hospitals in Brazil are running out of critical sedatives, leading to reports of some doctors diluting what supplies remain and even tying patients to their beds while breathing tubes are pushed down their throats.

Pakistan will start vaccinating people between the ages of 50 to 59 next week.
In Asia, authorities in Pakistan have decided to start vaccinating people aged 50 to 59 next week, hours after the country reported more than 100 fatalities in a single day for the fifth consecutive day.

Italy will start easing restrictions on the 26th of April.
In Europe, Italy will ease curbs in many areas beginning April 26 but warned caution was still needed to avoid any reversals in the reopening of many long-shuttered activities.
 
Here is the COVID-19 summary for Sunday.
Coronavirus: What's happening in Canada and around the world on April 18

Israel have removed the requirement to wear masks in public.
In the Middle East, Israel has lifted a public mask mandate and fully reopened its education system in the latest easing of coronavirus restrictions following its mass vaccination drive.

France have imposed entry restrictions on travellers from Argentina, Chile, South Africa, and Brazil over concerns about variants.
In Europe, France is imposing entry restrictions on travellers from four countries — Argentina, Chile, South Africa and Brazil — in hopes of keeping out especially contagious coronavirus variants.

Guinea received 300,000 doses of Sinovac vaccine purchased from China, and expect to get another 200,000 doses of Sinopharm.
In Africa, Guinea received on Sunday a shipment of 300,000 Sinovac COVID-19 vaccines purchased from China and is also set to receive a donation of 200,000 Sinopharm shots, Guinean Foreign Minister Ibrahima Khalil Kaba said.
 
Here is the COVID-19 summary for Monday.
Coronavirus: What's happening in Canada and around the world on Monday

A court in Argentina ordered schools to resume in person rather than on line despite the surge which is bringing hospitals to near collapse.
Schools in the Argentine capital of Buenos Aires will open after all on Monday after a court overruled a federal order requiring classes to go online for two weeks amid a surge in cases that has brought hospitals to near collapse.

Saudi Arabia have announced that vaccination is required for pilgrims who wish to travel to Mecca.
In the Middle East, vaccination against COVID-19 is a requirement to perform the Umra pilgrimage to Mecca, Saudi state TV said on Sunday, citing a government official.

India has started a one week lock down in New Delhi.
In the Asia-Pacific region, New Delhi imposed a week-long lockdown on Monday night to prevent the collapse of the Indian capital's health system, which authorities said had been pushed to its limit amid an explosive surge in coronavirus cases.

Pakistan are running short of oxygen in hospitals.
Pakistan's minister for planning and development said Monday that authorities are struggling to maintain the much-needed supply of oxygen to hospitals for COVID-19 patients. Asad Umar, who also oversees Pakistan's response to the coronavirus, said on Twitter that hospitals were continuously receiving coronavirus patients amid a surge in new cases.

All schools in Tunisia will close until the 30th of April.
In Africa, Tunisia announced the closure of all schools until April 30, as well as restrictions on movement, to slow the spread of COVID-19.

Austria say they will not use the Sputnik V vaccine until it is approved by the EU.
In Europe, Austria will only use Russia's Sputnik V vaccine once the European Medicines Agency has approved it, Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said, amid growing public frustration with the pace of vaccinations.

The EU have ordered an additional 100 million doses of Pfizer-Biontech vaccine.
The European Union has exercised an option to acquire an additional 100 million doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, the two companies said.
 
In Canada, the province of Ontario reduced the age for receiving the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine from 55 to 40. Alberta followed suit a few hours later, and then Manitoba and British Columbia. I won't be surprised to see more provinces follow. Quebec are reported to be considering doing so soon.
Ontario, Alberta to lower minimum age for AstraZeneca-Oxford COVID-19 vaccine to 40 from 55

In Canada, Health Canada approves vaccines, and they approved Oxford-AstraZeneca (or it's equivalents from elsewhere) for all people age 18 and up. The advisory board NACI, had recommended, based on information from Europe. It's up to each province however to take that advice and use it in forming their own policies within their jurisdiction.

I gather from what I am reading in other news stories is that this change in policy is simply a reflection of progress in vaccinating older age groups combined with a desire to use the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine to reach more age groups through pharmacies, doctor's offices, and other distribution points.

NACI are reported to be reviewing new data from Health Canada and may be issuing new guidance soon. I will not be surprised if they change their advice, including possibly remove the age restriction altogether.
 
India will apparently be selling Oxford vaccine to Canada. There is no word on quantities or dates, although the manufacturer (SII) said that they would ship within a month of approval.

India to ship COVID-19 vaccines to Canada as diplomatic tension eases

An announcement will be made when the deal is finalised.

Another news report several days ago said that Canada first talked with India about buying vaccine last August. Yet another report said that SII were bringing significantly more production capacity on line next month.

Seeing the news it is not pleasant heartbreaking and stressful on all esepcially with disposal of the family remains over there,


It appears due to technical complications ...various ummm incinerators have had structural failings ...chimney collapsed, and irnon works melting.
and not coping with the immense input.

Relatives been asked e en to bring their own wood as running out of wood ...
also a flight from Mumbai or somewhere else touched down in Hong Kong today or in last 24 hours with 45 passengers tested positive for Covid.

I also read that here around 200 peeps have been diagnosed with Indian variant.

And Boris will be speaking above shortly ..

cheers
 
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Chocolate93

Old-Salt
The following article answers questions about how vaccination may or may not affect women, with the focus on this like whether vaccination affects their period, or mammograms, or fertility treatments and things like that. I won't bother to summarise it. Those who have reason to want to know would probably want the full story.

How a COVID-19 vaccine can (and cannot) affect menstruation, mammograms and more
Wanted to say once I'd read your noted above on vaccines that India are doing Canada a huge favour in fighting this varient, by offering shipping in as soon as a month. Airports clearly are not doing enough and Imho should still be shut everywhere, no point in risking spreading this virus, exceptions should be for food, essentials to survive, medical stuff etc and nothing else.

I kinda think everything should completely close in terms of boarders everywhere until vaccines get out and the virus is completely gone, sadly shops still need to be open and facilities etc else all of the world's economy would just crash and burn. Loads of businesses would seize to exist completely, I'm a huge believer in all office jobs and jobs u can work remotely should be at the moment. And be kept this way until everything is clear.

There should be crises funds etc set up worldwide for events like this in the future, furlough is good so are the 10k grants they where giving out but this would not even keep the smallest of businesses trading for six months average staff in UK 1200 - 1600 a month after tax, 5 staff members and you'd still be bust in less then 3 months.
 
Wanted to say once I'd read your noted above on vaccines that India are doing Canada a huge favour in fighting this varient, by offering shipping in as soon as a month. Airports clearly are not doing enough and Imho should still be shut everywhere, no point in risking spreading this virus, exceptions should be for food, essentials to survive, medical stuff etc and nothing else.

I kinda think everything should completely close in terms of boarders everywhere until vaccines get out and the virus is completely gone, sadly shops still need to be open and facilities etc else all of the world's economy would just crash and burn. Loads of businesses would seize to exist completely, I'm a huge believer in all office jobs and jobs u can work remotely should be at the moment. And be kept this way until everything is clear.

There should be crises funds etc set up worldwide for events like this in the future, furlough is good so are the 10k grants they where giving out but this would not even keep the smallest of businesses trading for six months average staff in UK 1200 - 1600 a month after tax, 5 staff members and you'd still be bust in less then 3 months.
Travel between many provinces in Canada is restricted as well. For example, I can't travel to the Atlantic provinces without quarantining on arrival. They have maintained this since the start of the pandemic and as a result they've had very few cases there in total. Case and death rates are comparable to Australia and New Zealand.
 
Here is the COVID-19 summary for Tuesday.
Coronavirus: What's happening in Canada and around the world on Tuesday

The EU will add a warning label about blood clots to the Johnson & Johnson (Janssen) vaccine. The say that blood clots are a "very rare side-effects of the vaccine."
In Europe, experts at the agency that regulates drugs for the European Union said Tuesday that a warning about unusual blood clots should be added to labels for Johnson & Johnson's COVID-19 vaccine. The European Medicines Agency said these blood disorders should be considered "very rare side-effects of the vaccine."

India reported a record number of deaths, 1,761.
In the Asia-Pacific region, India reported 1,761 deaths from COVID-19 overnight, its highest daily toll, with large parts of the country now under lockdown as a second wave has left people fighting for hospital beds, oxygen and medicines. The world's second-most populous country is grappling with its biggest public health emergency after it lowered its guard when infections fell to a multi-month low in February, health experts and officials say.

In Japan, Osaka have asked the government to declare a state of emergency as variants continue to spread.
Japan's western metropolis of Osaka has decided to ask the government to declare a state of emergency in the region after ongoing alert measures failed to control the spread of a more contagious coronavirus variant.

In Mexico, president Obrador got his shot of Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine.
Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador got a shot of coronavirus vaccine on Tuesday. Lopez Obrador received a dose of the AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccine from a military nurse live at his daily morning news conference.
 
As mentioned previously, a number of provinces in Canada have lowered the age of eligibility to receive the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine to 40.
Trudeau says he wants an AstraZeneca shot, but a supply crunch could be coming

These include Ontario, which was the first to announce, followed by Alberta, British Columbia, and Manitoba. Quebec has lowered it to age 45. Together these account for 86 per cent of the population of Canada. Additional announcements from more provinces could follow shortly.

NACI (National Advisory Committee on Vaccination) were scheduled to release updated recommendations on Tuesday supporting the above, but that has been rescheduled to later in the week.

PM Trudeau has apparently been having his office working on scheduling him an appointment at a pharmacy (where this vaccine is distributed in Ontario). From previous remarks made in the press I suspect he intends to make a public display of getting vaccinated with the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine both to show that the government have confidence in it, as well as to encourage Canadians to get vaccinated as soon as they are eligible.

This however won't solve the problem of the supply of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine being very limited in Canada. Current supplies are expected to run out before too long.
 

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