merlin door guns

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Steamywindow, Sep 10, 2005.

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  1. I know this is more for the side scuttlers, but can any fly boys on here settle one for me?

    I was nattering to a mate about our time in Bos last year, and we got onto the subject of the Merlin we had a trip in. Very comfy, bags of leg room, bit swish, satnav as standard, leather upholstery etc. It struck me though, that the crab loady geezer had been going on and on in the bar later on about his gpmg capabilities. WTF is a squillion quids worth of unarmoured helicopter doing getting close enough to the baddies for a gimpy to be of use? Haven't we got better kit for that sort of thing? Shouldn't the big choppers be keeping out of harms way rather than trading tracer with some infidel - hating loony? Or was he bigging up the offensive ops. thing, and it's really just a last ditch defensive capability?

    Ta very much for any sensible answers.
     
  2. Slider was bigging up his own capabilities. You'll find in a couple of years that the ammo for the gimpy will get timex'ed.

    The guns are mainly for show.

    Sorry, you asked for sensible replies; IMHO you're not likely to get one here.
     
  3. Getting close to the baddies! what 2004, Bosnia?!!! I would estimate wherever you flew in Bosnia you were Approx. 2,500 MILES AWAY FROM THE BADDIES, not exactly in range of a Gimpy!!!

    Oh, I do apologise in advance that this isn't I suppose a 'sensible' answer...
     
  4. I meant in general, you tw@t.


    The only baddies in Bos nowadays are the fag smugglers and pimps we somehow let run the place. And the inf.
     
  5. I believe they've just had a load of new weapon mounts delivered into Basrah for the Merlins out there.

    Not sure what they're putting on them but they seem a bit sturdier than the GPMG ones.
     
  6. Helo armament has regularly proved useful in recent ops in Afghanistan and Iraq particularly; I believe that AAC Lynx also employ such weapons.

    However, RAF Merlins also have a JPR/CSAR role. In such a role, supressive fire is often required during transit and particularly in the actual pick up point where armed bad guys will often be closing in. During Kosovo and Afghanistan, USAF CSAR helos were forced to employ machine guns in both defensive and supressive roles.

    Regards,
    MM
     
  7. Helo armament has regularly proved useful in recent ops in Afghanistan and Iraq particularly; I believe that AAC Lynx also employ such weapons.

    However, RAF Merlins also have a JPR/CSAR role. In such a role, supressive fire is often required during transit and particularly in the actual pick up point where armed bad guys will often be closing in. During Kosovo and Afghanistan, USAF CSAR helos were forced to employ machine guns in both defensive and supressive roles.

    Regards,
    MM
     
  8. This may be wandering off thread a bit but I assume you mean, by 'timex'ed', that the ammo will no longer be considered viable for operational use.

    Perhaps some ammo tech will enlighten me as to the operational life of ammunition. I was told that, once upon a time and many moons ago, the ordnance packing standard required that ammunition could be immersed in salt water for seven years and remain viable. That was with a wooden outer container with a sealed metal can inside.

    I've used Dominion .303 (packed as described, cloth belted and headstamped 1950) and found it to group to 1 moa with no trouble. Again, I've used some .303 which arrived recently from Russia: this could best be described as 'barn sweepings', (headstamped as early as 1918). It shoots pretty well, once you've cleaned all the crap off it, and I haven't had a single failure to ignite.

    Given this, why is it necessary to downgrade ammo which is only a few years old, with all the costs that this incurs? Or is it that Royal Ordnance can't produce the goods any more?
     
  9. Sorry, Old Adam, I was just being sarcastic, based on the consumption of 7.62 by Her Brittanic Majesty's finest rotary stewards, versus that of the 'Dog Watchers' of the AAC.

    I'm sure that the ammo in question will remain in safe storage for a long time, particularly under their stewardship.
     
  10. Sorry, being a bit slow after a good dinner and a nice bottle of wine.
     
  11. The thing is GPMG is aross the three services thus saving money to employ on Aircraft, Ships, Vehicles etc etc. I do know the crabs operate an American system from the ramp of the wokka (cuz they like to be different). A certain Fleet Air Arm Sqn and AAC Sqn operate a bigger weapon system!!! but as minime has been issued to the various units it wont be long before that is tested on an airframe!! again saving money as you only need 5.56mm.
     
  12. When the Proof House was still at ROF Nottingham, they had a mount for the ramp of a CH53 mounting a 7.62mm minigun. I think the Chinook has the option to mount the same. It's unlikely that Lynx would mount one in the cabin, due to lack of space for the feed-chute, but IIRC, the Lynx had/has feed slots in the cabin floor for a forward-firing 20mm cannon either side, using the same mount as for the TOW launcher.

    What is the point in trying to suppress with a Minimi? The weight of fire using 5.56 would be ineffective. Yes, commonality could be cited, but cyclic rate as well as the weight of fire at the receiving end would be laughable.
     
  13. well the general is a much better weapon than the 60 used on the ramps of chinooks. Mind you, the mini-guns on the side of a chinook would be a handy addition to the merlin...
     
  14. AHAAAA!!!! I knew it! Had a bit of a set too the other day re: 20mm cannons either side. That is what the TSU/GUN setting on TOW is it for no? Didn't they have problems getting rid of the spent casings and thus never implement it? Where can I get documentary proof that there were plans to mount 20mm on the sides? Westlands? Would they have it or could I get some trials stuff from Boscombe?

    Long Live Lynx.
     
  15. there is a bit of money riding on this you see.....and credibility....