Merkava turret bustle bollocks

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#21
The "Em Kay 3" and the "Em Kay 4"?
And here's me thinking it's "Mark 3" and "Mark 4".
Septics.
FFS.
Who cares if you're in the same army as this lot? If they say Em Kay that's Oh Kay by me.

We need an "If you absolutely had to be captured" thread.

 
#23
I'll have the one on the right, based on the size of her bustle.
 
#29
Who cares if you're in the same army as this lot? If they say Em Kay that's Oh Kay by me.

We need an "If you absolutely had to be captured" thread.

They can torture me anytime. I suggest opening with a little light tickling - I'll sing like a canary!
 
#31
Are you sure? I seem to recall that we sold it to Jordan as the result of a spontaneous brainwave by St Tony of Blair - to the general horror of the wiser and better informed..
Well before Blaaaahhh"s time in his orifice. I was told the story back in the early 80's just after the Abrams came on the scene. I am not sure if UK made the armour for them or they made their own armour but, is was assumed it would all be hush hush. But, no one on the UK side thought anything about the freedom of information that the septics had even back then - if you could walk in to the right place and ask for the right subject you could get all the documents pertaining to it. And, they had all the doc's for Chobham armour.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#32
Well before Blaaaahhh"s time in his orifice. I was told the story back in the early 80's just after the Abrams came on the scene. I am not sure if UK made the armour for them or they made their own armour but, is was assumed it would all be hush hush. But, no one on the UK side thought anything about the freedom of information that the septics had even back then - if you could walk in to the right place and ask for the right subject you could get all the documents pertaining to it. And, they had all the doc's for Chobham armour.
Not arguing, my understanding is that it was the Jordanian episode which let the Chobham cat out of the bag.
 
#34
Well before Blaaaahhh"s time in his orifice. I was told the story back in the early 80's just after the Abrams came on the scene. I am not sure if UK made the armour for them or they made their own armour but, is was assumed it would all be hush hush. But, no one on the UK side thought anything about the freedom of information that the septics had even back then - if you could walk in to the right place and ask for the right subject you could get all the documents pertaining to it. And, they had all the doc's for Chobham armour.
Given that the US classify their documents in a similar manner to us, I doubt that version.
 
#35
Given that the US classify their documents in a similar manner to us, I doubt that version.
They redact what they consider too sensitive and not for dissemintion. Hence the magic marker lines across many documents.

They did a telly prog on Channel 4 about it many years ago. There are so many doors into official records as so many agencies deal with them and in the case of R&D and design they are using universities and third party contractors that also open the doors to freedom of information.

FOIA.gov - Freedom of Information Act

Since 1967.
 
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#36
Not arguing, my understanding is that it was the Jordanian episode which let the Chobham cat out of the bag.
Yet it is apparently still so secret that Challenger doesn't mount it unless deploying to a combat theatre, according to the Bovvy chaps when asked why the turret top was flexing underfoot and making a hollow sound by one of the others in my experience day group last year.
 
#38
They redact what they consider too sensitive and not for dissemintion. Hence the magic marker lines across many documents.
And we do the same when we downgrade material for public release.
I doubt that you could request information that has been protectively marked and get something that has not been redacted. Not to mention the ITAR regulations which they are exceedingly hot on would prevent widespread release of military technology.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#39
#40
And we do the same when we downgrade material for public release.
I doubt that you could request information that has been protectively marked and get something that has not been redacted. Not to mention the ITAR regulations which they are exceedingly hot on would prevent widespread release of military technology.
ITAR when buying stuff is as **** as a proctologists best friend. Personally I have been questioned and had to show ID because of my english accent before being allowed to buy 'stuff'.

But, the info, there is always a way. I think it was Channel 4 did a program on it around 15 years ago. Their researchers asked for the same info from diferent locations and were variously given refusal's, magic marker scrawled on documents and full disclosure. I have also requested documents pertaining to a case from a. An agency, b. the agency's representative lawyers. The agency basically gave me the cover sheet of the file with a couple of names blacked out and the lawyers gave me a full copy of the file. Honest.

I would not want to make a career of requesting doc's for nefarious purposes but, there are too many agencies with fingers in too many pie's. Then each of those agencies has their own SOP and rules and doesn't talk to the other agencies so stuff can quickly gets lost, mis-filed, or disseminated.

My Mrs had dealings with Homeland Security and the FBI through work due to employing foreign nationals for business reasons. They had two seperate ways of operating for basically the same outcome that caused the bank no end of problems and cost. Add to that the fact that they had to create the office of the ODNI to try and get everyone to at least pick up the same hymn book if not read off the same page.

You can't just think military agency in these case's, military agency's probably do it properly. But as soon as you involve a civilian agency, which they do for oversight purposes here, there is the risk a clerk will just release the stuff.
 

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