Merged Egypt threads

[KGB_resident]

Unprecedented anti-government protests rock Egypt - Yahoo! News

Police fought with thousands of Egyptians who defied a government ban on Wednesday to protest against President Hosni Mubarak's 30-year-old rule, firing rubber bullets and tear gas and dragging away demonstrators.

Protesters burned tires and hurled stones at police as groups gathered at different parts of the capital Cairo. Demonstrators also clashed in other cities around Egypt. In Suez, east of Cairo, protesters torched a government building.

The scenes were unprecedented in the country, one of the United States' closest Middle East allies, and follow the overthrow two weeks ago of another long-serving Arab strongman, Tunisian leader Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali, in a popular revolt.

Egypt police, protesters clash for second day - Yahoo! News

The interior ministry had banned all further demonstrations and promised a crackdown after thousands turned out on Tuesday, and security officials said some 700 people had been arrested over two days.

The White House called for the ban to be lifted, and Amnesty International condemned what it called an excessive police response and called for restraint.

Police used water cannons and tear gas against demonstrators in a main central Cairo thoroughfare. And they fired rubber bullets as 500-600 people took to the streets in the port city of Suez to demand Mubarak's ouster.

Dozens were arrested in the Mediterranean port of Alexandria as they tried to reach a sea-front square to hold a second day of protests, witnesses said.

The one-sentence chant ringing out at every demonstration has summed up the demand from the street: "The people want the ouster of the regime."

Egypt protesters clash for 2nd day with police - Yahoo! News

"Down, down Hosni Mubarak," chanted the crowd. "Oh, people, join us or you will be next."

There were protests in at least three other locations across Egypt.

At least eight journalists have been arrested in the troubles. Police arrested an Associated Press Television News cameraman and his assistant early Wednesday while they were filming clashes in Cairo. An AP photographer was beaten by a policeman and had his cheekbone fractured while shooting demonstrations late Tuesday.
...
In Washington, White House Spokesman Robert Gibbs would not say whether President Hosni Mubarak, the target of demonstrators' anger and a close U.S. ally, still has the Obama administration's support. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the government should allow peaceful protests instead of cracking down.

It looks that pro-American regime in Egypt has serious problem.

 

[twothreeuptwothreedown]

Unprecedented anti-government protests rock Egypt - Yahoo! News



Egypt police, protesters clash for second day - Yahoo! News



Egypt protesters clash for 2nd day with police - Yahoo! News



It looks that pro-American regime in Egypt has serious problem.

Pro American?

I think they were pro Commie before that, weren't they?

 

[Nehustan]

Pro American?

I think they were pro Commie before that, weren't they?

When I was there all the choppers I eyeballed over Cairo were Russian. I was speaking to a friend in Cairo last night and mentioned to him that during all the time I was there I met no-one who voted for Mubarak; yet he wins with 95%, funny that.

 

[bluntslane]

Is this the start of the unravelling of a secular Middle East or will it be stamped flat?

 

[Nehustan]

When was the middle east secular...missed that one...

(edited to add that Egypt is Africa...but I got your point...)

 

[IndianaDel]

Pro American?

I think they were pro Commie before that, weren't they?

I think it is fair to say that the were, are and will continue to be Pro-themselves first and last.
I give you the unofficial Egyptian National Anthem
YouTube - italian job theme with lyrics

 

[OldAdam]

Is this the start of the unravelling of a secular Middle East or will it be stamped flat?

Hope it's not so but, if the pattern continues -Algeria next, followed by Morocco; Libya will blow along with the prevailing breeze - then pretty soon Europe will be faced by a whole arc of failing states with islamist fundamentalists gaining control. I wonder how keen the EU will be to have Turkey as a member then? The Greeks had better build their wall a bit higher and 'Club Med' will need to invest in a whole shed-load of inshore patrol craft...

 

[pp0470]

Yemenis are also getting vocal about their 'beloved' President of 30yrs.

I don't blame them - in the same situation I think I'd be revolting.

Would love to be a fly on the wall at Friday prayers this week - pop corn at the ready for the wkend.

 

[uncle_vanya]

I see that the 'Daily Wail' has reported that Mubarak Junior has turned up at Heathrow with over 100 pieces of luggage and his family. One wonders how much gold and Dollar Reserves have been included in this. If true, and the Foreign Office is not commenting, neither has the Egyptian Embassy in London. It's curious when families of alleged tyrants are on the run, many of them turn up on Blighty's busted shores.

No doubt when it comes the time for Uncle Bob Mugabwe to shuffle off this mortal coil, his Mrs, along with some of the high ranking ZaNU-Pf thugs will seek asylum on our shores.... and of course will be welcomed with open arms by certain 'friends' of a Communistic background....

 

[offhand]

Hopefully there will be an independant Diver friendly state of Sharm/Hugarda!!

 

[Steven]

When I was there all the choppers I eyeballed over Cairo were Russian. I was speaking to a friend in Cairo last night and mentioned to him that during all the time I was there I met no-one who voted for Mubarak; yet he wins with 95%, funny that.

I think it would be more sinister if you had never met anyone who voted against him TBH.

 

[Nehustan]

I think it would be more sinister if you had never met anyone who voted against him TBH.

Fair observation.

 

[Taz_786]

So the worm has finally turned....and not before time. Funny how all those doyens of freedom and democracy who were on their soapboxes 18 months ago during the Iran protests seem to have gone rather quiet....lots of anxious hands being wrung in Washington and Tel Aviv? Good stuff - more power to the protestors.

pretty soon Europe will be faced by a whole arc of failing states with islamist fundamentalists gaining control

Why should it be a choice between tyranny or fundamentalism? For decades Western govts have propped up these dictatorships in the mistaken belief that they provide "stability" when actually these tyrannies are one of the root causes of radicalism in the Middle East.

It's no coincidence the worst offenders, Egypt and Saudi, produced the likes of OBL and Al-Zwahiri. Indeed there's famous film footage of Al-Zwahiri as a young medical student amongst those arrested and brutalised after Sadat's assassination in 1979.

Democratic reform in the Middle East would do far more to dampen extremism than a zillion drone strikes in Waziristan or wherever so it's in the West's, and the wider world's, own interests that these regimes disappear or at least fundamentally reform so they greater reflect the aspirations of their people.

 

[OldAdam]

So the worm has finally turned....and not before time. Funny how all those doyens of freedom and democracy who were on their soapboxes 18 months ago during the Iran protests seem to have gone rather quiet....lots of anxious hands being wrung in Washington and Tel Aviv? Good stuff - more power to the protestors.



Why should it be a choice between tyranny or fundamentalism? For decades Western govts have propped up these dictatorships in the mistaken belief that they provide "stability" when actually these tyrannies are one of the root causes of radicalism in the Middle East.

It's no coincidence the worst offenders, Egypt and Saudi, produced the likes of OBL and Al-Zwahiri. Indeed there's famous film footage of Al-Zwahiri as a young medical student amongst those arrested and brutalised after Sadat's assassination in 1979.

Democratic reform in the Middle East would do far more to dampen extremism than a zillion drone strikes in Waziristan or wherever so it's in the West's, and the wider world's, own interests that these regimes disappear or at least fundamentally reform so they greater reflect the aspirations of their people.

I'm simply pointing out that when all the dominoes fall flat, the sh*t will have a shorter distance to fly in our direction. I'm not condoning the behaviour of the current govts in those states and democratic reform is all very well in principle - gives some people a nice warm, fuzzy feeling to talk about it - but it never lasts long against the crazies.

 

[TwentyBandH]

Democratic reform in the Middle East

Never happen you knob. islam doesn't do democracy.

 

[Le_addeur_noir]

I see that the 'Daily Wail' has reported that Mubarak Junior has turned up at Heathrow with over 100 pieces of luggage and his family. One wonders how much gold and Dollar Reserves have been included in this. If true, and the Foreign Office is not commenting, neither has the Egyptian Embassy in London. It's curious when families of alleged tyrants are on the run, many of them turn up on Blighty's busted shores.

No doubt when it comes the time for Uncle Bob Mugabwe to shuffle off this mortal coil, his Mrs, along with some of the high ranking ZaNU-Pf thugs will seek asylum on our shores.... and of course will be welcomed with open arms by certain 'friends' of a Communistic background....

Correct and these cnuts will then be leeching off British welfare for ever more.

 

[Le_addeur_noir]

The recent Egypyian elections were baltantly rigged.

Now hopefully those who did the rigging will have appointments with nooses and lampposts.

 

[KGB_resident]

I think it is fair to say that the were, are and will continue to be Pro-themselves first and last.

IndianaDel,

If they are 'pro-themselves' as you have written then why Egyptian corrupted, undemocratic regime recieves so huge US aid?

USAID Feature: Egypt Stories - U.S. Aid to Egypt Totals $28 Billion in Three Decades

U.S. Aid to Egypt Totals $28 Billion in Three Decades

U.S. Aid to Egypt: The Current Situation and Future Prospects - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

As for U.S. security and military aid to Egypt, which is about $1.3 billion annually, it does not aim to strengthen Egyptian military power against any external threat, as this would be contrary to the declared U.S. objective of ensuring Israeli security and maintaining Israeli military supremacy over its Arab neighbors, including Egypt. Instead, this aid is devoted mainly to strengthening the regime’s domestic security and its ability to confront popular movements.

In fact the USA supplies Egyptian corrupted, undemocratic regime with tools to opress own people.

The Bush Administaration at least sometimes shot critical arrows toward Egypt. But as to the new White House inhabitant then...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/28/world/middleeast/28diplo.html?_r=1&hp

The [wikileaks obtained] cables, which cover the first year of the Obama presidency, leave little doubt about how valuable an ally Mr. Mubarak has been, detailing how he backed the United States in its confrontation with Iran, played mediator between Israel and the Palestinians and supported Iraq’s fledgling government, despite his opposition to the American-led war.
...
...they also reveal that relations with Mr. Mubarak warmed up because President Obama played down the public “name and shame” approach of the Bush administration. A cable prepared for a visit by Gen. David H. Petraeus in 2009 said the United States, while blunt in private, now avoided “the public confrontations that had become routine over the past several years.”

 

[FORMER_FYRDMAN]

IndianaDel,

If they are 'pro-themselves' as you have written then why Egyptian corrupted, undemocratic regime recieves so huge US aid?

USAID Feature: Egypt Stories - U.S. Aid to Egypt Totals $28 Billion in Three Decades



U.S. Aid to Egypt: The Current Situation and Future Prospects - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace



In fact the USA supplies Egyptian corrupted, undemocratic regime with tools to opress own people.

The Bush Administaration at least sometimes shot critical arrows toward Egypt. But as to the new White House inhabitant then...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/28/world/middleeast/28diplo.html?_r=1&hp

Have you been at the anti-freeze again?

just because a population is self-interested (how unusual) or a country is undemocratic, doesn't mean that it is not strategically significant and worthy of cultivation by those to whom strategic importance matters. Whatever Egypt gets up to on the human rights front, we cannot afford to have it descend into chaos any more than Julius Caesar could, particularly given the haphazard and fragile nature of of democracy in the Middle East and its track record of giving way to something more sinister (I'm sure a Russian doesn't need lessons in how that dynamic works). US support for the Mubarak regime simply represents a recognition of the mayhem potential of political upheaval in Egypt, particularly with the Muslim Brotherhood in the background, not some sort of failed moral virility test.

 

[KGB_resident]

US support for the Mubarak regime simply represents a recognition of the mayhem potential of political upheaval in Egypt, particularly with the Muslim Brotherhood in the background, not some sort of failed moral virility test.

Politics is a dirty business, Fyrdman. I believe you agree with it. There are moral standards, respect to the human rights, democratic ideals and on another hand there are political interests.

Egypt itself is absolutely unimportant to the USA. Suppose an anti-American forces come to power, maybe even the Muslim Brotherhood. And what?

However, Egypt in this case would pose a serious threat to Israel. So Washington acted in the interests of Israel supporting opressive, undemocratic, corrupted regime. and it is not an exception. Washington has a lot of similar clients.

So are US efforts fruitless? It looks that yes and billions that were spent on Egyptian project have rather negative impact for the USA and by the way for Israel, as well.

----------------------------------------
In the news

Egypt protesters clash with police after prayers - Yahoo! News

Thousands of Egyptian anti-government protesters clashed Friday with police in Cairo, who fired rubber bullets into the crowds and used tear gas and water cannons to disperse them. It was a major escalation in what was already the biggest challenge to President Hosni Mubarak's 30 year-rule.

Police also used water cannons against Egypt's pro-democracy leader Mohamed ElBaradei and his supporters as they joined the latest wave of protests after noon prayers. Police also used batons to beat some of ElBaradei's supporters, who surrounded him to protect him.

A soaking wet ElBaradei was trapped inside a mosque nearly an hour after him and his supporters were water cannoned. Hundreds of riot police laid siege to the mosque, firing tear gas in the streets surrounding it so no one could leave. The tear gas canisters set several cars ablaze outside the mosque. Several people fainted and suffered burns.

So Washington promotes the new pro-democracy puppet.