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Menezes acted like any commuter

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
Jean Charles de Menezes was shot on 22 July, 2005
The Brazilian shot dead by police who mistook him for a suicide bomber was acting no differently to any other London commuter, a jury has been told.
If he'd been an ordinary commuter, he would have bought his ticket, stood on the platform for a while before jamming himself with some force onto a packed commuter tube, and then stood there reading the same advert judiciously for ages to avoid eye contact with anyone else on the carriage, whilst trying to see down the cleavage of a fit bird through the reflection in the glass opposite out of the corner of his eye. Whilst doing this, he would have been sweating loads and trying to hide his armpits. Then he would have alighted from the tube train, before climbing the stairs, going to the ticket slot that said closed, missed three places whilst he got in the right queue and then gone on his miserable way.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but an average commuter does not get chased by SO19 before spreading his brains all over a perfectly serviceable tube carriage.

Thoughts please: What should he have done differently?
 
#4
And if he had left britain 9 months earlier when his visa expired It could not and would not have happened! Tragic but ! if he was not there it would not have happened!
 
#6
The sad fact is he was as much a victim as those killed and injured on 7/7. I also include the guys who shot him as victims. Still probably would have been alive if he had not outstayed his visa.
 
#7
Wasn't he shot something like 7 times in the head? Thats a bit harsh, you'd think once would have been enough, twice to be on the safe side, three times just to definately make sure he's dead, but seven times! F*ck me, I feel sorry for the poor fatherless that had to clean that mess up
 
#8
'Any' cummuter? Tried to board the train/tube before letting people off, shoulder barged passengers out of the way to make a closing/opening door,never offers to give up their seat for someone elderly/infirm/up the stick.

Perhaps London Transport staff should be armed!
 
#10
infantrino said:
Wasn't he shot something like 7 times in the head? Thats a bit harsh, you'd think once would have been enough, twice to be on the safe side, three times just to definately make sure he's dead, but seven times! F*ck me, I feel sorry for the poor fatherless that had to clean that mess up
Harsh. Nope!!!

He was thought to be a suicide bomber by the copper who done him. So good drills that bobby for trying to end all brain functions as quickly as possible.

A lad in our company on Telic put 40rds (About 60 were fired) out of a minimi into a geezer with an RPG. He wrote his statement as usual handed it into the Ops O who later informed us that a Monkey S/SGT who proof read it said "Good fcuking drills that is."
Once you make the decision to do it, you make sure you do it properly!
 
#11
Bad_Crow said:
infantrino said:
Wasn't he shot something like 7 times in the head? Thats a bit harsh, you'd think once would have been enough, twice to be on the safe side, three times just to definately make sure he's dead, but seven times! F*ck me, I feel sorry for the poor fatherless that had to clean that mess up
Harsh. Nope!!!

He was thought to be a suicide bomber by the copper who done him. So good drills that bobby for trying to end all brain functions as quickly as possible.

A lad in our company on Telic put 40rds (About 60 were fired) out of a minimi into a geezer with an RPG. He wrote his statement as usual handed it into the Ops O who later informed us that a Monkey S/SGT who proof read it said "Good fcuking drills that is."
Once you make the decision to do it, you make sure you do it properly!
I do agree actually if it was me I would have done the same (so long as I wasn't the one tidying up after!)
 
#12
The cop shoot the man because he was belived he was wearing the emporers new sucide belt. Poor integence and poor policing. If they had belived his to wearing this bomb why did they wait for him to enter the train. I think think has only been accepted because it was near the bombings but that should not have affect there objectivity.
 
#13
TAcont said:
The cop shoot the man because he was belived he was wearing the emporers new sucide belt. Poor integence and poor policing. If they had belived his to wearing this bomb why did they wait for him to enter the train. I think think has only been accepted because it was near the bombings but that should not have affect there objectivity.
Yes it should. When the alert state goes up you match by becoming more robust. In the same way that when the alert state went up in Afghan around january/feb 2006 Rules of Engagement became more robust to match the threat.

Good drills all the coppers on the ground. Bad drills the intelligence system that led them to him.
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
Bad_Crow said:
infantrino said:
Wasn't he shot something like 7 times in the head? Thats a bit harsh, you'd think once would have been enough, twice to be on the safe side, three times just to definately make sure he's dead, but seven times! F*ck me, I feel sorry for the poor fatherless that had to clean that mess up
Harsh. Nope!!!

He was thought to be a suicide bomber by the copper who done him. So good drills that bobby for trying to end all brain functions as quickly as possible.

A lad in our company on Telic put 40rds (About 60 were fired) out of a minimi into a geezer with an RPG. He wrote his statement as usual handed it into the Ops O who later informed us that a Monkey S/SGT who proof read it said "Good fcuking drills that is."
Once you make the decision to do it, you make sure you do it properly!
Would i be right in thinking more than one copper fired? would explain seven wounds...
 
#15
chrisg46 said:
Bad_Crow said:
infantrino said:
Wasn't he shot something like 7 times in the head? Thats a bit harsh, you'd think once would have been enough, twice to be on the safe side, three times just to definately make sure he's dead, but seven times! F*ck me, I feel sorry for the poor fatherless that had to clean that mess up
Harsh. Nope!!!

He was thought to be a suicide bomber by the copper who done him. So good drills that bobby for trying to end all brain functions as quickly as possible.

A lad in our company on Telic put 40rds (About 60 were fired) out of a minimi into a geezer with an RPG. He wrote his statement as usual handed it into the Ops O who later informed us that a Monkey S/SGT who proof read it said "Good fcuking drills that is."
Once you make the decision to do it, you make sure you do it properly!
Would i be right in thinking more than one copper fired? would explain seven wounds...
Three double taps and a nervous single thrown in for good luck. Not out of the question at all definately not at close range.

However more than likely more than one opened up. If it was only one though i have no problem with it.
 
#17
This was not an act of robustness. The standard of survalence and polcing should not go down because there was an attack recently. If it was a genine bomber the police should have stoped his earlier. The hight of readyness is based on passed events its future events which a cac handed jitteryness are not going to help.

If a man had gone on the train a week later with a bomb the police may not as acted as quickly as they otherwise would having shot an inocent the week before through sloppy pratices.
 
#18
TAcont said:
The cop shoot the man because he was belived he was wearing the emporers new sucide belt. Poor integence and poor policing.

If they had belived his to wearing this bomb why did they wait for him to enter the train. I think think has only been accepted because it was near the bombings but that should not have affect there objectivity.
I take it with your super 20/20 hindsight vision you could have done a better job?

I also assume your super cool headedness (augmented by your hind sight) would mean you could round up all the baddies easily.

That it was a tradgic accident is undoubted, however, the Police were acting as best as can be expected (IMHO) and the commander on the ground made a descision, weighing up the pros and cons of one man dieing or hundreds.
 
#19
TAcont said:
This was not an act of robustness. The standard of survalence and polcing should not go down because there was an attack recently. If it was a genine bomber the police should have stoped his earlier. The hight of readyness is based on passed events its future events which a cac handed jitteryness are not going to help.

If a man had gone on the train a week later with a bomb the police may not as acted as quickly as they otherwise would having shot an inocent the week before through sloppy pratices.
Well then i'm glad the lives of Innocents arent left in your hands day to day.

I wonder how they would have felt knowing that if they'd just shot the "Suicide bomber" then "all them people would be alive". Oh thats right they'd have felt fcuk all because they'd be dead.

Dont blame the coppers and dont sit in your armchair and pick faults with what they did.

"If" you have been in a similar situation then you will know full well that making a 50/50 choice like that is a hard decision to make. No scratch that a "God awful" choice to make. Its something that i can assure you will bug the copper who dropped him for the rest of his life.

Pulling what he did apart when "You werent there" is out of order. Its not a nice feeling at all to have somebody (whom nine times out of ten knows fcuk all about the real circumstances) rub salt in the wounds and tell you how much of a fcuk up you are and how you should have done "x,y,z"
 
#20
What's disgraceful in this whole sordid affair is not the fact that an innocent illegal immigrant was shot in the head, not that the police never shouted a warning or fired a warning shot not that they could have arrested him prior to his entering the underground. No none of that. Whats disgraceful in this whole affair is the size of that coppers grouping. At point blank range as well -fcukin rubbish I tells ya! Never declared any either.
 

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