Men or Mice?

Discussion in 'The NAAFI Bar' started by Markintime, Feb 1, 2009.

?
  1. Man up and grow a pair.

    31.3%
  2. Get a spot on Jeremy Kyle

    8.3%
  3. Stag on

    60.4%

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  1. Observing and participating in some interesting threads leads me to ask this question, is serving and wearing the uniform not enough anymore? Do we now demand that we are treated as official heroes: People must stand aside to let us pass, they must give up their seat on a crowded bus or train and, of course, they must always give us discount and even freebies?
    We now find that one medal per theatre is not enough we must have ‘combat’ medals and echelon medals. Perhaps we should have little T patches sewn on our uniform sleeves, 1 T for every Taliban KIA.
    It used to be that you came back off tour, grabbed a bit of leave then back to normal duties. You might have the odd nightmare about what went on, perhaps shed the odd tear for the mucker who never made it but all this was done in strictest privacy. Your public face was going down the pub with your mates, getting shitters and making bone remarks about wearing your waistcoat over your jacket etc. They knew what you were going through because they were going through it to. If they saw you down they’d lift you up, that’s what soldiering was about then, one for all, all for one.
    Nowadays we seem to belong to the ‘daytime TV' generation who don’t believe that emotion exists unless you are tearing out your hair and balling your eyes out in public. You don’t get headaches you get migraine. You don’t get colds you get ‘flu and you’re no longer ‘OK Sir, mustn’t grumble’, you’re devastated.
    I’m not talking about guys who get PTSD but just 'your ordinary Joe' who has been doing it since the Roman Legions. Are we now so shallow that every experience we go through has to be catalogued, noted and public acknowledgement made? Do soldiers still ‘man up and grow balls’?
     
  2. Its a different world now, different country and your average tom is a lot more aware of his rights, his surroundings, current affairs etc etc. Ive seen it from the mid 80's through until now and a lot has changed, some for the good and some for the worse Im afraid. But, when it all comes down to it, the average tom still gets his arrse into whatever theatre, gets in the face of the enemy and does the job.

    Maybe with a little more dripping than we used to :)

    We have to appreciate the simple things like phones, digital this and that, comms etc, your average tom is more appraised than we were. We were lucky to get SSVC and a bluey now and again.
     
  3. On the medals and awards front, its not the squaddies who govern this, this is politics in action.
     
  4. Think it's to do with that both theatres are unjust and we've been following the Yanks instead of telling 'em to s*d off. Plus there's more understanding of WW1.All squaddies with an once of brain :idea: could've envisaged the sh**te we were heading into. Think the public knows this and hence the wave of sympathy etc.Maybe it's an anti-government thing!! Agree about blubbing in public and all that, yes we should be able to go out in uniform and be proud but not on the scale of what the Yanks do......

    MARKINTIME- in case you are RAMC- I've been in the medics almost 30 years, joined up in Sept 1979 5 years reg then the rest TA..the thing with the RAMC that went wrong is called clinical governance, :( political correctness :x and health and safety.......... :cry:
     
  5. Id settle for the 50% discount at Costa Coffee that the plod get.
     
  6. It's not so much the things we have to put up with, it's more to do with the way that we deal with those things.

    What went wrong with the RAMC is that our leadership sold the Corps down the river, not for peace dividend but for political expedience. clinical governance, political correctness and H&S we can work round. No hospitals and the trained staff to man them we can't.

    That having been said the Corps is performing as well, if not better now than it has ever done but at what cost to the men and women who are on almost continual rotation and reaching the end of their endurance?
     
  7. You are right we do perform well, I know that on our tour of 'gan there are folks walking who should be dead if they were brought to a Brit A & E. However, I hate to be boring but Clinical Governance has killed off the CMT, especially the TA CMT. I could write reams about whats right and wrong but it wont change anything, and would be a tad dull for anyone to read in depth.There are a few knobs around but I for one would rather be treated by someone who has common sense and good training than some duffer with a fistfull of qualifications. I see it at work every day ( operating Theatres ) and on tours of 'gan and Iraq.
    However, we still have the best Army and this website is surely a testimont to the fab British squaddie and to quote the great Spike Milligan-'that laughter was, I'm sure the key to victory.' :D
     
  8. BrunoNoMedals

    BrunoNoMedals LE Reviewer

    You're joking, right? There are at least four Costas in Abbey Wood, and probably more in the other south-west sites. You reckon they'll ruin their profit margin like that?! Mind you, the prices they charge it's probably still a 70% mark-up with a 50% discount.
     
  9. Don't think plods get a coffee discount? Imagine the discounts lawyers get from banks. You don't want to believe it ? Not only lawyers, we're talking w@nkfest here, and then they say, make the people pay for our nice loans to our pals...and, judicially ignore us when we fund people who do all kinds of shite. We know who we are talking about.
     
  10. I think that some of the people who are wanting that today's squaddies be treated in a better way are those that served yesterday (like myself).

    Surely it's not wrong for older generations of soldiers, to want the next and future generations of soldiers to get better treatment and maybe a little respect from the civilians who's bidding the soldier is doing.
     
  11. Biddy, biddy bidding???? Christ, if squaddies had to do the bidding of the folks back home, the casualty score would go up a hundredfold. Can you send out a squad to get Tracy a bacon sandwich, etc.
     
  12. I totally agree with you .sven, I too am from the older generation and I too want a better social acceptance of our soldiers than we possibly were.

    One minute there was the FI homecoming parades with the whole country cheering us on, the next week I needed my CO's permission to buy a freezer from Bejam.

    What worries me is that it is not being accepted with humility, some soldiers come across as expecting such treatment and more. It is important that any upsurge in largess and homage from the civilian population is accepted in the right way. To arrogantly expect it will be counterproductive and will only lead to resentment. When we are on the good side of a grateful nation we should be ever careful to ensure that we maintain discipline and don't let excesses erode our good standing. Today's soldiers do deserve respect but they must maintain standards.
     
  13. Bit off the topic but surely any occupation where you're life is at threat should get respect from Joe Public. I'm sick to death hearing about police all being branded racists and soldiers all being branded pychos ( not saying that there aren't those who are in both professions), but these are the people we all rely on to keep us safe but that is all forgotten when the media jump on a story and tar everyone with the same brush!
     
  14. If it's true that todays soldier expects to be treated as a hero, as you suggest, than I don't think this attitude is exclusively found in the armed forces. More in general I've been surprised by people younger than me (I'm 33) who demanded for instance - 'respect'. It isn't always clear to me why I should respect them (other them being fellow human beings). But surely not on their merits; or rather lack of.

    There's seems to be a lot of emphasis on 'rights' during our upbringings and less on 'duties/obligations'. I must admit I was pretty stunned to meet a 21 year old applicant for an office job who thought we should be glad she even considered applying :?

    Again, I don't think it's just an army thing. It's more societal.

    Either that or I'm getting old as well! :wink:
     
  15. The fact is that the Police and the Services both do jobs that the public in large have no stomach for even if they appreciate the need. Both jobs take personal courage and need sacrifice and discipline.
    Like you IG it annoys me that the Police and to some extent the Military are vilified in the press and, to a certain extent on this very forum. Those of us who served in NI will have some insight into policing, or certainly how difficult it is to maintain a good profile when you are facing an 'enemy' who laughs at the truth when spouting propaganda and will manufacture 'evidence' of corruption, wrong doing or bias to suit their own needs.
    I do stand by the public's right to question the validity of the reasons for invading Afghanistan and Iraq and it is to the soldier's benefit that such examination should take place. If there is no legitimacy then any blame should be laid at the feet of the politicians and not the soldiers who are just carrying out the Government's policy on behalf of the electorate.