Medical discharge under PAP 10

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by Flick1983, Dec 14, 2010.

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  1. Hi all,

    My hubby is currently P7 due to hearing loss, which the army have admitted liability for. He had to go in front of the med board in sept and was told that if the regt found him a job then he could stay in as he has only got 4 years left. The regt did find him a new job which he has been in post for a month now. But last friday his CO told him that the corps have rejected this and still want him medically discharged. Now we don't know what to do. His CO is more than willing to fight for him to stay in the army and pass this above the corps to the army. The only thing we'd like to know is what he would get if he would be medically discharged.
  2. Flick, get him into to see his RAO. He/she would have recently been given a revised briefing pack to tell you wahat to expect. However every case is different, and you won't be given any amounts - but you will be advised on any pension, compensation or guaranteed income payments that he may be entitled to.

    If his RAO stares blankly at him, PM me with said RAOs details!
  3. Your husband would have been subjected to an App8 to PAP10 originally, which is an application to retain a solider whose medical employment statndard falls below the minimum for the Army/Corps. This App8 would have neeeded to have been heavily endorsed by his CO as to what he would bring to the party to be retained in his current role for 12 months and then every 12 months after that. This is then sent to APC Glasgow for sanction, where the SO1 Occupational Health would have also had to endorse his retention. It could just be that the SO1 OH believes he would be better served with a medical Discharge and may benefit (either financialy or future career in industry) from being Medical Discharged.

    Your husband will now probably face an App22 to PAP10, Rellocation or discharge of a soldier unfit for employment within current Arm or Service. Make sure when your husband is presented this form that he ticks the box to state he would accept a transfer to another Arm/Corps and if offered accept it without falter. If he fails to accept a transfer if offered, he could be Admin Discharged and will not get any of the benefits he would have from a Medical Discharge.
  4. Thank you both for the info. Have just been informed of a date for my discharge and projected invaliding pension, which is less than i expected. I signed and ticked the box required in App22 to find employment with other Corps/Cap Badge, a letter sent by Soldier Management had confirmed that i was unsuccessful in obtaining employment with other Corps/Cap badge and that i would recieve a date of discharge. I was always lead to believe that if i tickled this box but was still rejected for employment that i would recieve a small cash (Sorry) in addition to my projected pension.

    Can anybody shed light on to the truth with any entitlements for signing this little box or have i been miss informed?
  5. There are no major cash benefits i.e. extra cash, what you will get is a possible Medical Discharge pension with immediatte payment and monthly payments thereafter, you should not undertake this on your own. You MUST join the British Legion and ask them to represent you when applying for Compensation and war pension etc.

    If you on medical discharge are deemed to have greater than 20% disability you will also get a War pension, in addition to your medical discharge pension, which is payable monthly. If on medical discharge your disabilty is assessed less than 20% you will get a lump sum only in addition to your monthly medical discharge pension.

    Please let the Legion take your case on and fight that you get every penny you are entitled to on discharge. On average they can get anywhere between 20 - 30% more than going it alone.

    Good luck
  6. Flick1983,

    I would also encourage you to touch base with the RBL. They are as stated the single most important agency for assisting veterans.
    The difficulty with hearing loss is that the compensation is currently based on low frequency loss (which affects the ability to distinguish speech tones), however weapons noise typically affects high frequency tones which doesn't attract the same level of compensation. In addition to the RBL, it may be worth seeking advice from a good solicitor. Good luck.
  7. Hi, Thank you all. We have decided to get a solicitor involved as it looks like he would get double the lump sum amount if not more if he would be offered a redundancy.
  8. Flick

    I have hearing loss caused by my early service in the 1980's, and wear ITE hearing aids. last week I had to convince an Army consultant not to further downgrade me, which I felt was a path which could lead to me being medically discharged. The rules seem not clear cut and he agreed to review me in a year, if I avoid excessive noise.

    The medical compensation/pension is not as much as I feel I would get on redundancy. The 20% or 30% war pension payment (Old Sceme) is not as much as 12 months redundancy payment on the new pension scheme, which I opted for in 05, unless I live a very long time.

    I would also take legal advice if I were in your shoes, you dont want to be kicked out on the cheap.

    Good Luck.
  9. Duty rumour, as at yesterday (28 Mar 11) is that anybody discharged under PAP 10 who is eligible for redundancy will get the best financial settlement available to them.

    For instance, If a guy would get a minimal med pension and a huge redundancy package, they will pay out as if you are under redundancy, and vice versa.
  10. PAP10 Chap 10 para 101 selected quote "This process allows for consideration of transfer to a different Arm or Service or, where this is not possible, discharge on either Medical or administrative grounds."

    Unfortunately they are playing by the rules according to the info you supplied as long as they did "consider" you for transfer to another Arm or Service. I doubt though if any Arm or Service would be prepared to accept anyone who is P7 MND at any time let alone when we are supposedly full!

    Also if they are following the rules, consideration for allowing you to serve another 3 years until you retire on age grounds is not an option and would deny a medically fit and deployable person the opportunity to promote.

    And if you think PAP10 was written to save money then I'm afraid you are not thinking very clearly as the whole medical discharge process for individuals is about what is best for them in the long term and, of course, the army/navy,air force. And yes I'm about to be P7 MND and about to go through the same process as you after a rather tortuous 21 months.
  11. With all what has been going on I could really do with so info off anybody knowing the appeal proceedure. My wife, god bless her, has been trying to gather info on my dicharge under PAP10 as discussed above. I am now at a stage were I have been looking for employment since the beginning of March 11, to no avail. My appeal granted by my CO was scheduled for 31 Mar 11 in Glasgow, but recently had a phone call from a Maj (APC) notifing me that my appeal has been postponed until the 17 May 11 as they wish to convien a board including my CO and the LT Col MO that made the final decision of me being P7 MND, from the info I have, there will be a board of around 8 Officers' deciding my fate to retain or continue with the discharge.
    My query is simple, my final date is 14 Jun 11, I still don't have a job but I am undertaking courses to make ends meet. Is the fact that such a board is being essembled for my appeal, that I hold a very good chance of being retained to complete my last 3 years or do I commit to courses that will hopefully find me an employer?
  12. Hi everyone,

    I am reading these messages with a mixture of shock and sadness. I have just joined ARRSE in the hope of getting some answers to my questions related to this subject. If anyone can advise me, particularly those who are involved in or are undergoing discharge under PAP 10 I would be very grateful as I am getting very worried. Here goes...

    I have been in the Army for 19 and a half years and have had seasonal asthma which is brought on by hay fever for most of my career (it has never prevented me from deploying).

    Recently I was assessed by a specialist (and then underwent a medical board which was conducted by my MO) as having my asthma fully under control and as being capable of continuing with my job and fully deployable, but with the marker 'L2' against my MES, which was described to me as 'nothing major, just something for the doctor to think about when I was being considered for deployment.' This occured at the end of March. In my current job I deploy regularly outside of the EU for short periods of time.

    I thought that was the end of the matter and life would continue as normal. However, this week I had a phone call out of the blue from the occupational health department advising that an appointment had been made for me mid May to 'confirm the medical board's findings.' I presume that when it gets to this stage the Army is looking for an excuse to discharge you?

    If the worst comes to the worst, please can anyone tell me whether I will qualify for my full pension if I get PAP 10'd with an admin discharge on medical grounds? Seeing as the Army didn't cause my asthma I don't expect to receive a medical discharge and whilst I will be gutted to leave I will feel even worse if I effectively leave with nothing, so close to my 22 year point.
    I should add that I am capable of passing all my MATTs. Does that have any bearing on the outcome?

    Sorry for all the questions. I am feeling very upset and would be very grateful if anyone can provide any information at all. My husband's regiment is getting hammered at the moment for PAP 10, many of these guys are suffering serious injuries from op tours and are dealing with the trauma of that. You'd think the Army could find a job for them somewhere seeing as these lads were serving Queen and country when they were injured. I know it's our job, but it doesn't seem right. Don't get me started on MPs expenses, generations of lazy people on sickness and welfare benefits.....aargh!

    Many thanks xx
  13. Sadie,

    Not taking the piss but you really need to read PAP 10 to understand the process you're going through. Reading PAP 10 will tell you what L2 means and why the Med board has been convened.

    In my experience (I have been going through this for 2 years) PAP 10 still appears to be implemented differently depending on units & MOs with Occupational Health being the only ones following the book.
  14. Thanks Escotia for your reply. If I could get my hands on PAP 10 I would read it cover to cover but I'm going to have to wait till after the bank holiday. Do you know what L2 means? Any information would be helpful as this is doing my head in. I feel powerless to stop this procedure and am struggling to understand what I've done wrong. I am fully deployable and have never been prevented from going anywhere with my asthma as it as always been under control. I guess that if they're going to discharge me it's going to happen no matter what but I'm prepared to do whatever it takes to get to my 22 year point, which is 2 and a half years away.

    Can anyone at all offer any advice, be it good or bad? I just need to know the facts before I go to this occupational health appt. I don't feel as if I can speak to my CoC incase it was them that initiated this process. I feel as if I'm being stabbed in the back.

    Sadie x
  15. Sadie, tell them to **** right off.

    I've got hay fever, I've got a Ventolin inhaler, Flixonase, Beconase, Clarytin etc. - all prescribed by the military doctor.

    They are laughing at you. Stand your ground and tell them to shove it.

    PM me if you want.

    Lady Dale of Snailsville xx

    P.S. 19 1/2 years? Sprog.