Medal Identification

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Yep, named after that famous shop-worker murdering shitbag.
I was wondering why they chose to name it after a common murderer, it's not as if he was killed as a "heroic freedom fighter" in some "organised" MK action against the SADF.

If the precedent is to commemorate cowardly murderers, I'll be interested to see the Barend Strydom Regiment being presented their colours in Sibongeseni Dhlomo Square.

Actually I can see the latter happening as he's a cANCer politico.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
Out of a 5th floor window of the Jo’burg Police HQ ?
You joke, but the two top floors at John Vorster Square were the province of the Sy Branch, and eventually had bars retro-fitted the windows to prevent incidents of "suspects trying to escape."
 
No idea about Irish regiments but is that really true of Scots? Surely most came from historically Scots families even if, having been too thick to get on in the Scottish education system, many were sent away to England for school.

Not this lot obviously

View attachment 670665

They used to wear spats, now it seems gaiters are easier to wear/issue?

Anyhow
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
They used to wear spats, now it seems gaiters are easier to wear/issue?

Anyhow
One pair of spats, issued on rotation.
 
You joke, but the two top floors at John Vorster Square were the province of the Sy Branch, and eventually had bars retro-fitted the windows to prevent incidents of "suspects trying to escape."

Just so.

1655320952576.png


Made things very awkward when a suspect needed to be suicided.
 
I was wondering why they chose to name it after a common murderer, it's not as if he was killed as a "heroic freedom fighter" in some "organised" MK action against the SADF.

If the precedent is to commemorate cowardly murderers, I'll be interested to see the Barend Strydom Regiment being presented their colours in Sibongeseni Dhlomo Square.

Actually I can see the latter happening as he's a cANCer politico.
He is a 'struggle martyr' because of his alleged last words...

Before going to the gallows he reportedly said: "Tell my people that I love them and that they must continue the fight, my blood will nourish the tree that will bear the fruits of freedom, A luta continua."

which sounds like made-up BS rhetoric to me.
As if any prison warder would have made a note... or NOT censored any letters he sent out.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
He is a 'struggle martyr' because of his alleged last words...

Before going to the gallows he reportedly said: "Tell my people that I love them and that they must continue the fight, my blood will nourish the tree that will bear the fruits of freedom, A luta continua."

which sounds like made-up BS rhetoric to me.
As if any prison warder would have made a note... or NOT censored any letters he sent out.
Yebo, skellums are well known for saying kak like that in their last breath.
Still at least "his" people have continued his fight - there are plenty of that type still murdering innocents.
 
No, you asked 'who he' of Mahlangu.


and this bites my balls...
In the city of Durban, there was a major arterial road named 'Edwin Swales VC Drive', after a RAF bomber commander who died in 1945.
Swales's Cross was awarded posthumously for his acts on the night of 23rd February 1945, target Pforzheim.

The USAAF had bombed the city rather inconsequentially on three or four occasions causing about 250 casualties on the ground. RAF Mosquitos had visited a couple of times too with nuisance raids.

1, 6 and 8 Groups, RAF Bomber Command obliterated the place on the 23rd February, igniting a firestorm.
Although the absolute number of German casualties was smaller than those at Hamburg, Dresden, Wuppertal, Darmstadt and others, the proportion of the population killed at Pforzheim dwarfed all other Allied firestorm attacks, and I include Op MEETINGHOUSE in that, Curtis LeMay's B-29 firebombing of Tokyo in March 1945 and the two nuclear attacks.

In the course of twenty minutes over the small city of Pforzheim the RAF killed 18,000 people - over 30% of the population.
 

Bad Smell

Old-Salt
British servicemen on exchange with the US receive US medals. Does Australia have a different policy?

View attachment 669902

And just to confuse everyone regarding Australian awards.

Australia under a Labor government decided to ditch the British Commonwealth or the Imperial awards system and instigate its own in 1975. So up until that time all awards for warlike service, etc. were made under the British system including the Vietnam War. Now during the Vietnam War a number of Australian Servicemen across all three services served with Vietnamese and US units with the largest contingent being 2 Sqn RAAF which was placed under the 35th TFW operating out of Phan Rang airbase. 2 Sqn also had a RAAF Airfield Defence Guard (ADG) component as part of the airfield security setup.

All campaign awards regardless of the above units were the British Vietnam War medal and the South Vietnamese (SV) campaign medal and their associated qualifying times. Usual rules for British gallantry awards as well. However any Australian servicemen who was on exchange to a US or SV unit and was awarded a gallantry award of that nation whilst serving with that unit was entitled to wear it including the US PUC, etc. They were not awarded the US campaign medals as they were awarded under the British system. All Vietnamese and foreign troops were entitled to the SV campaign medal. Regarding 2 Sqn operating under the Yanks, all gallantry awards were British such as DFC, MM*, etc. as they were an Australian unit under the operational command of the USAF, not administrative command.

In 1975 all further awards from the UK for personnel on an exchange posting were classified as foreign awards and were worn after Australian awards. A lot of the foreign including US awards that you see awarded in recent years are worn following the Oz ones. An example of this is my Brit GW1 medal which is now classified as a foreign award. There were a handful of Australians on exchange with UK forces that deployed with those units and received the GW1 medal. I think they received the Oz medals as well. I know of one RN officer who transferred to the RAN with the GW1 medal and he wore it after his subsequent Australian awards. At least one Australian helo pilot received the DFC but I think that was during the Iraq campaign in 2003.

To add further confusion with our habit of backdating and double medaling. There is the AASM and ASM with the former being for warlike stuff. There are pre and post 1975 version of which the pre-75 version starts its qualification period post WW2. So the Vietnam Veterans now have a pre-75 AASM for their service which takes precedence over the British award. Service in Timor, Iraq and Afghanistan resulted in both an AASM and Campaign medals, then there is the NATO blue job. Solomon Islands was just an ASM and other operations attracted AASMs and UN medals. The AASM and ASM have now been replaced by the Australian Operational Service Medal, of which I have one.

There are numerous anomalies in the system mostly in the long service awards. The most common one being for the National Medal (NM) which was awarded for 15 years service to emergency services (Police, Ambos, SES, etc) and was awarded as an interim measure to the ADF until April 1982 until the DFSM** was introduced. As the emergency services award a NM bar for each additional ten years of service and the ADF for five which can be worn in conjunction with the DFSM for those entitled until 1982. I know of a certain Army Reserve WO who qualified for the NM with both the Army and Police and during a dining in night deliberately wore the Army version on his mess kit to create confusion.

Then there are the post Vietnam Gallantry awards centred around the 1966 Battle of Long Tan. Also the retrospective Victoria Cross awards and I definitely do not want to go there as that discussion is way above my head and more emotional than logical.

And finally we come to the various state awards which centre around bravery, operational and long service along with the swimming pool event awards. These are separate to Commonwealth or national awards and the qualification periods are different. Most are worn on the right chest and as an example can be worn with your state organisation uniform, e.g. Police, SES but not on a Commonwealth uniform such as an ADF member regardless of whether you are a Regular or Reservist. Some police have awards from more than one state and in uniform can wear both Commonwealth and State awards. However if they are an ADF Reservist in uniform they can only wear Commonwealth awards. Emergency Services personnel can be awarded either Commonwealth or state Bravery awards. Then there are the three states that wear their state awards mixed with their Commonwealth awards. And when I see this I just want to punch something.

So hopefully you are all confused by all this because my head definitely hurts now! So feel free to criticise the Australian Awards system as much as you want because I do. And please don't ask me how I received a bar to my NM before the qualification period because I have no effing idea. I just took it and said thank you.

* A RAAF Cpl ADG was awarded the MM at Phan Rang during an airbase attack.

** Now replaced by the DLSM.
 
And just to confuse everyone regarding Australian awards.

Australia under a Labor government decided to ditch the British Commonwealth or the Imperial awards system and instigate its own in 1975. So up until that time all awards for warlike service, etc. were made under the British system including the Vietnam War. Now during the Vietnam War a number of Australian Servicemen across all three services served with Vietnamese and US units with the largest contingent being 2 Sqn RAAF which was placed under the 35th TFW operating out of Phan Rang airbase. 2 Sqn also had a RAAF Airfield Defence Guard (ADG) component as part of the airfield security setup.

All campaign awards regardless of the above units were the British Vietnam War medal and the South Vietnamese (SV) campaign medal and their associated qualifying times. Usual rules for British gallantry awards as well. However any Australian servicemen who was on exchange to a US or SV unit and was awarded a gallantry award of that nation whilst serving with that unit was entitled to wear it including the US PUC, etc. They were not awarded the US campaign medals as they were awarded under the British system. All Vietnamese and foreign troops were entitled to the SV campaign medal. Regarding 2 Sqn operating under the Yanks, all gallantry awards were British such as DFC, MM*, etc. as they were an Australian unit under the operational command of the USAF, not administrative command.

In 1975 all further awards from the UK for personnel on an exchange posting were classified as foreign awards and were worn after Australian awards. A lot of the foreign including US awards that you see awarded in recent years are worn following the Oz ones. An example of this is my Brit GW1 medal which is now classified as a foreign award. There were a handful of Australians on exchange with UK forces that deployed with those units and received the GW1 medal. I think they received the Oz medals as well. I know of one RN officer who transferred to the RAN with the GW1 medal and he wore it after his subsequent Australian awards. At least one Australian helo pilot received the DFC but I think that was during the Iraq campaign in 2003.

To add further confusion with our habit of backdating and double medaling. There is the AASM and ASM with the former being for warlike stuff. There are pre and post 1975 version of which the pre-75 version starts its qualification period post WW2. So the Vietnam Veterans now have a pre-75 AASM for their service which takes precedence over the British award. Service in Timor, Iraq and Afghanistan resulted in both an AASM and Campaign medals, then there is the NATO blue job. Solomon Islands was just an ASM and other operations attracted AASMs and UN medals. The AASM and ASM have now been replaced by the Australian Operational Service Medal, of which I have one.

There are numerous anomalies in the system mostly in the long service awards. The most common one being for the National Medal (NM) which was awarded for 15 years service to emergency services (Police, Ambos, SES, etc) and was awarded as an interim measure to the ADF until April 1982 until the DFSM** was introduced. As the emergency services award a NM bar for each additional ten years of service and the ADF for five which can be worn in conjunction with the DFSM for those entitled until 1982. I know of a certain Army Reserve WO who qualified for the NM with both the Army and Police and during a dining in night deliberately wore the Army version on his mess kit to create confusion.

Then there are the post Vietnam Gallantry awards centred around the 1966 Battle of Long Tan. Also the retrospective Victoria Cross awards and I definitely do not want to go there as that discussion is way above my head and more emotional than logical.

And finally we come to the various state awards which centre around bravery, operational and long service along with the swimming pool event awards. These are separate to Commonwealth or national awards and the qualification periods are different. Most are worn on the right chest and as an example can be worn with your state organisation uniform, e.g. Police, SES but not on a Commonwealth uniform such as an ADF member regardless of whether you are a Regular or Reservist. Some police have awards from more than one state and in uniform can wear both Commonwealth and State awards. However if they are an ADF Reservist in uniform they can only wear Commonwealth awards. Emergency Services personnel can be awarded either Commonwealth or state Bravery awards. Then there are the three states that wear their state awards mixed with their Commonwealth awards. And when I see this I just want to punch something.

So hopefully you are all confused by all this because my head definitely hurts now! So feel free to criticise the Australian Awards system as much as you want because I do. And please don't ask me how I received a bar to my NM before the qualification period because I have no effing idea. I just took it and said thank you.

* A RAAF Cpl ADG was awarded the MM at Phan Rang during an airbase attack.

** Now replaced by the DLSM.
... and, then there're the [very] emotional cases relating to some activities initially classified as Australia Service Medal-worthy which became reclassified as Australian Active Service Medal-worthy sometime later ie UNTAG, UNTAC etc. The gnashing and wailing is still being heard ... and causes no end of problems when it comes to assessing/determining Veteran's Affairs entitlement.
 

Bad Smell

Old-Salt
... and, then there're the [very] emotional cases relating to some activities initially classified as Australia Service Medal-worthy which became reclassified as Australian Active Service Medal-worthy sometime later ie UNTAG, UNTAC etc. The gnashing and wailing is still being heard ... and causes no end of problems when it comes to assessing/determining Veteran's Affairs entitlement.
Yep. Worked with a bloke who was on the UNTAG mission with the ginger beers and another on UNTAC. Will they review Sinai next? Initially they could not wear the MFO one then the ASM came into being. Hopefully, ... hopefully the AOSM will make it a level playing field.

I am waiting with feigned disbelief as to what the states and Commonwealth decisions will be regarding Covid. I am sure some clown will stand up and complain about how their personal safety was compromised, blah, blah, blah. FFS.
 
... and, then there're the [very] emotional cases relating to some activities initially classified as Australia Service Medal-worthy which became reclassified as Australian Active Service Medal-worthy sometime later ie UNTAG, UNTAC etc. The gnashing and wailing is still being heard ... and causes no end of problems when it comes to assessing/determining Veteran's Affairs entitlement.
I declined the offer to 'upgrade' my ASM for UNTAG (Op PICARESQUE) partly on the basis that it couldn't have been 'active' service as I wasn't (usually) armed. Also because the actual gong was presented by our Bde Comd after a Freedom of the City of Cairns parade. He had been the CE for our rotation. Funny old deployment, that was.
 

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