MED MAN 3 2006

#1
Not long come back, what an absolute fcuk about that was. We basically ended up doing winter repair tasks prior to deploying onto the area. This was,i believe, due to a lean line that was carried out by 6 Bn on winter repair completely failing miserably (no reflection on the 6Bn lads). Then, due to the kit being in such rag order, we carried out a spectacular 126 cas reps and something like 90 IST's once we had deployed. When are the wigs gonna realise that lean lines do NOT work. It's all well and good in a civvy company that is well backed with a good stores system but not in REME.
We carried out that many cas reps that Batus actually ran out of CV12's (5A & 6A), CV8's, TN15D,s and K60's. We were down to the last L60. It was my first MED MAN and I'm still in shock. God only knows how MED MAN 4 is going.
 
#2
Might as well tell the whole world what the British Army is short of. They now know which factories to blow up first when they attack.
 
#4
Crafty990 said:
Not long come back, what an absolute fcuk about that was. We basically ended up doing winter repair tasks prior to deploying onto the area. This was,i believe, due to a lean line that was carried out by 6 Bn on winter repair completely failing miserably (no reflection on the 6Bn lads). Then, due to the kit being in such rag order, we carried out a spectacular 126 cas reps and something like 90 IST's once we had deployed. When are the wigs gonna realise that lean lines do NOT work. It's all well and good in a civvy company that is well backed with a good stores system but not in REME.
We carried out that many cas reps that Batus actually ran out of CV12's (5A & 6A), CV8's, TN15D,s and K60's. We were down to the last L60. It was my first MED MAN and I'm still in shock. God only knows how MED MAN 4 is going.
Dont want to dampen your bonfire, but they run out of packs on nearly every med man/iron anvil.
I also dont know if we should be discussing figures on here but they dont seem too bad to me (from previous experience)

If the amount of work has shocked you then what will you think when it gets busy?

BM
 
#5
Fella - That sh1t has been state normal for years on the early season Med Man Exercises.
For some reason no matter how well the WRP seems to go the kit falls apart the first time it is used properly. Have been on both sides of the fence and still could not work out why. Those in the B/Gps say its down to sh1t WRP's and those involved in the WRP say otherwise.
One of the major problems is that when you get blokes in to work from many different units they take time to gel and get things right, as well as the fact that no matter how focused you are on the first few bits of kit you repair buy the time you get to the 5 or 6 vehicle of the same type you are going through the motions and not really paying that much attention to detail. Not being able to carry out proper out inspections due to the weather conditions does not help either. People hit the start all keen and wanting to make it happen, but buy the half way stage its burn out time and the quality drops.
People will no doubt say that this is a load of bo***cks. Sorry folks it's the cold hard truth. Been there done that!!
Everyone is so keen to shoot lean lines down in flames. OK so they don't work as well as some would have us believe, but lots of ideas have been tried in order to get the fleet in BATUS into a decent state without much sucess.

AT the end of the day, equipment is sent to BATUS to die. With old kit that is on its last legs you will never win the battle.
 
#6
I must agree T_M, WRP is never perfect, nor can it ever be. No one fixes kit as well as the BG that is taking over :) This is proven on every roulement on Ops and Med Mans.

Ref lean processes etc. I believe they can work in the REME, but we always fall in to the trap of trying too hard with new ideas. Telic 7 was a 'lean fest' and the processes didn't work because people weren't given the required resources - i.e time and manpower. All that happened was we were promised the earth and received sand. The Snatch upgrade lean line was a shambles, not because of the people doing the work but because it was rushed in and under resourced.

edited because my laptop keys hate me
 
#8
johnEXvma said:
Might as well tell the whole world what the British Army is short of. They now know which factories to blow up first when they attack.
Not short of any of that kit mate, just couldn't fix the replacement packs in time.

RE. Early season MED MEN, MED MAN 3 WAS the first of the season as they couln't stage the first 2 coz the kit was in rag.
Agreed, this was my first taste but from the blokes around me, this was the worst MED MAN to date.
 
#9
Crafty990 said:
johnEXvma said:
Might as well tell the whole world what the British Army is short of. They now know which factories to blow up first when they attack.
Not short of any of that kit mate, just couldn't fix the replacement packs in time.

RE. Early season MED MEN, MED MAN 3 WAS the first of the season as they couln't stage the first 2 coz the kit was in rag.
Agreed, this was my first taste but from the blokes around me, this was the worst MED MAN to date.
Is this along the same lines of....

I did it when it WAS a course/tour/real ex

delete insert where applicable
 
#10
Devilishdave said:
Lean as a process works and the lines can work with the right resources and management.

Dave
Yes but we'll never get the right resources or management, so thats a waste of F**king time is'nt it!
 
#11
Lean is a great idea. It works in enviroments where people are dedicated to that job alone. That is where it will fail in the REME. We have too many other commitments and we are too overstretched everywhere to possibly make it work - except for BATUS.

If Lean continues to fail here where the enviroment is dedicated to it and Battalions spend months preparing for it using every available tradesperson and resource possible with no other distractions then surely it is time we realised that perhaps we should take the parts of Lean that do work and integrate them into REME's tried and tested methods and forget pursuing this lost cause....and breath.

Too many peoples careers however are hanging on the fact that Lean must work so don't expect it to go away for a while my friends.
 
#12
doesitmatter said:
Lean is a great idea. It works in enviroments where people are dedicated to that job alone. That is where it will fail in the REME. We have too many other commitments and we are too overstretched everywhere to possibly make it work - except for BATUS.

If Lean continues to fail here where the enviroment is dedicated to it and Battalions spend months preparing for it using every available tradesperson and resource possible with no other distractions then surely it is time we realised that perhaps we should take the parts of Lean that do work and integrate them into REME's tried and tested methods and forget pursuing this lost cause....and breath.

Too many peoples careers however are hanging on the fact that Lean must work so don't expect it to go away for a while my friends.
dim, must disagree. Lean is a tool to use, not a Corps initiative. You don't have to use it but there's people out there willing to help you adapt it to your needs.... it's not a career buster (yet)
 
#13
Unclebink,
Lean is the latest fad for REME, every Comd ES is trying to push it. On Telic 7 every opportunity was taken to further the use of lean techiques, even when it wasn't feasible or applicable to the job in hand.
As with every new fad, getting the job done becomes secondary to the use of the 'fad process'.
 
#14
Crafty990 said:
This was,i believe, due to a lean line that was carried out by 6 Bn on winter repair completely failing miserably (no reflection on the 6Bn lads).
All the out inspections of the equipment were completed by BATUS Class 1 tradesmen, so the quality of the repairs could not be doubted. The failure rates you indicated are reasonable for an average Medman. Do a few more and you'll soon realise this!
 
#15
The REME guys can't be doing too bad a job. I did an Iron Anvil i.e. 60 odd days pottering around the ulu doing battle runs etc and the worst thing that went wrong with my 432 was the rubber coming off from one of my road wheels. Not too bad really.
 
#16
Nige said:
Unclebink,
Lean is the latest fad for REME, every Comd ES is trying to push it. On Telic 7 every opportunity was taken to further the use of lean techiques, even when it wasn't feasible or applicable to the job in hand.
As with every new fad, getting the job done becomes secondary to the use of the 'fad process'.
As the soft shit landed with implementing Civ Wksp Lean line on CVR(T) I can assure you....... IT DOESN'T WORK !! Even with a dedicated A-SHOPS with civvie tradesmen with no duties, exercises, PT etc etc !!
Unfortunately the hierarchy are so busy minding their careers they don't want to hear that !

All warnings fell on deaf ears ....and as predicted it turned into a big base repair programme ....!!
Visits to other units to view their LEAN processes served only to confirm their Hierarchy were career watching just as diligently as ours !!!
When will THEY learn ...??

COMPLETE & UTER WASTE OF TIME ...in my humble opinion !! 8)
 
#17
Crafty 990-

Youre 100% right! It is all to do with the wrp.
I was part of the 6bn Lean line, and it was the biggest load of S**t going! Ive done a winter repair before when it was 6 months long and a vehicle was bought in and fixed then out inspected. Job done.
But evan before we arrived in batus we knew the lean line wouldnt work. We had spent the whole of 2005 doing lean line on many different vehicles. I was involved with a line on Drops. We put all thoses vehicles through the line, all looking good. (We had plenty of spares for those) The problem was when the drivers came to pick them up some of them didnt evan start! The main reason for that was that within a lean line there is nowhere for a class 1 to inspect. it is left to the class 2 and 3's to tick jobs off. When they cant be arsed to do a certain bit (which happens a lot because it gets very tedious doing the same job every 2 hours for weeks and weeks on end) they just tick it off, and the class 1's assume its done.
Later we moved onto doing saxon vehicles. What an embarrasment that was! The battalion was called out to JHQ Twice to rectify faults found on in inspections into the TFSU (Theatre Fleet Support Unit)
I managed to get a way for a few months and the bn carried on doing lean lines on bedfords and land rovers. Every time it failed and people ended up working over time because of the lack of spares/inspections by class 1's/ motivated vms.
Other platoons within the bn where involved in doing other vehicles. Dont know how they turned out, but i know it sapped the will to live out of every single person involved with lean line.
Finally we got to batus. We had a good set up on paper, lots of spares on the shelves etc. But it just didnt work again, the vehicles were thouoghly in inspected (By the civvies that work there). They were made out to be the enemy by our hierachy, but in fact they were just doing their job to the book. They inspected every piece of equipment professionally, and wrote down every single fault found.
One problem was the amount of hours that were coming through from those in inspections, they were going sky high. But the tiffys and officers responsible for the lean line kept coming up with all sorts of lovely graphs and charts that proved we had ample time to get all the work done. every time we fell behind, the graphs and charts were ammended to show that we could still do it. When it got to the half way point (6 weeks in) it became clear that we just couldnt cope with all the things that needed fixing. Vehicles (B vehs is what i was involved in) where not getting out the door ready for an out inspection on time, and on top of that the vehicles that we had already sent out where coming back with jobs not done properly on them and more faults that had been picked up by the civvies at MEI. Eventually the tiffys/officers realised that things where going drastically wrong, so they increased production hours. We worked 0700 to 2200 most days with the promise of the weekend off to keep us going. After 3 weeks of realising that evan if we did 0700 to 2200 they still took away at least 1 day of the weekend away from us (which ruins any chance of actully getting away to calgary/edmonton/the rockies etc) production began to slow down evan more. They guys on the ground just couldnt care. We where set a target to get x amount of vehicles done in x amount of hours, and when we got close to meeting the targets the famous saying of wrp came out, "guys get in the rest room for a briefing, The goal posts have changed" that was heard daily, and the targets just got ridiculos. All the time we were falling behind, there were more and more vehicles coming back from the civvies at MEI -Thoses Bast*rds! (They where just doing a good job). So the final solution was put forward to the CO. Let B line do their own out inspections, because the way the civvies keep doing it(Properly), we'll never finish. And that became the solution. With about 3 weeks to go, 0% morale left anywhere, people tired, and most signed off we turned spannered all hours, not giving a fu*k because
A:no matter what we did it wouldn't be quick enough &
B: We knew it was going to pass the new out inspection because it was being done by 4 people. 1 x Sgt VM who's neck was on the line if the production didnt suddenly speed up, 1 x Cpl VM who had been an excellent VE for many years, but had just suddenly been put through a Cl1 VE to Cl1 VM course and no offence to most sparkies, didnt have the slightest idea about VMing, although to his credit he freely admited it. And the other 2 chaps were 1 X Cl2 Cfn VM, and 1 X Cl3 Cfn VM. They were from the LAD, so they had more experince (?) on the jobs that were being done.
The saying and the logo on the wrp t-shirt became a pot of Loctite 430 and a broke nike tick on the back saying "just glue it" (Ripped off nike's just do it slogon)
And that is what happened. Guys where just gluing bits on, and cowboying bits just so they would drive out the workshop and become someone else's problem. I would like to think that a few people took a good bolloc*ing for the state of the kit that was given to the Battlegroups as 6BN had to supply VMS to rectify problems etc, and those guys returned back to the uk 2 weeks ago. (They've spent 11 months trying to sort out that kit)
So from all the guys turning spanners at 6BN, we are sorry, but most of us will be civvies in a few months, the last 2 yeasrs of lean lining had put us all off. (Im now going to be an armourer)
I also feel very sorry for 1bn who are going to have to start the whole proces all over again.
You may wonder what did happen to the tiffie SSGT in charge of the lean line in B Veh Sp Gp? The one that tried to fight it for 1.5 years saying how crap it was and that it didnt work.
He now wears his WO1 (How he skipped WO2 god only knows) and tours places giving speaches on the benifits of lean line!

When will they learn?

LEAN LINE DOES NOT WORK IN THE REME

I Will repeat for anybody who thinks it will,

I HAVE DONE LEAN LINE FOR 2 YEARS, AND IT DOES NOT AND WILL NEVER WORK IN THE REME

Please, please, please give it up now! Or else 99% of Cfn VMs that get posted to a bn that are doing it will sign off.

Oh i feel better after that.
 
#18
From the horses mouth as they say...

I'm not jumping on the (long) bandwagon above but a BATUS Comd Insp has never been failed in 34 years until...you guessed it, 2006. Coincidence? And for god's sake don't mention 5Bn's WRP. Had enough in WRP 04/05.

Replies on a postcard please to...
 
#20
Well, I suppose Comd BATUS could have been lying in '96, '97 and '04, but since we didn't have to work like lunatics to get the BG's away I don't think so. And certainly not have the REME's name dragged through the mud by having to fly people back to complete the job. Not that I blame the Bn entirely but to do WRP in 12 weeks? Come on, please.
 

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