MCMV

#1
In the littoral waters of the Baltics, how useful are the MCMVs in detecting enemy submarines? If they can be employed in the detection would it not make sense with the 'proposed' retirement of 2 MCMVs, to give them to the Baltic States?

Sorry if this is a bone question.
 
#2
Well, on the plus side, they could drive into them.

Go look up the difference between an MCMV sonar and something like SQS-53. And have a think.
 
#4
frequencies, power, how they work, etc etc.
 
#5
In a nutshell, minehunting sonars tend to be higher frequency to provide precise range, bearing and resolution of relatively small contacts to enable their classification, identification and disposal or recovery. They also tend to have a comparatively low power output owing to constraints on transducer size, especially in towed bodies or ROVs, This all results in reduced range owing to greater attenuation.
Active ASW sonars tend to be lower frequency and much more powerful with bigger transducers. This gives them substantially greater ranges against large contacts owing to reduced attenuation.
 
#6
In a nutshell, minehunting sonars tend to be higher frequency to provide precise range, bearing and resolution of relatively small contacts to enable their classification, identification and disposal or recovery. They also tend to have a comparatively low power output owing to constraints on transducer size, especially in towed bodies or ROVs, This all results in reduced range owing to greater attenuation.
Active ASW sonars tend to be lower frequency and much more powerful with bigger transducers. This gives them substantially greater ranges against large contacts owing to reduced attenuation.
nothing like giving all the answers away!
 
#9
there was an interesting thought experiment about making submarines out of concrete, and obviating the very expensive pressure hull and requirement for bouyancy, and instead making them into "underwater planes" or "sharks"...
 
#10
there was an interesting thought experiment about making submarines out of concrete, and obviating the very expensive pressure hull and requirement for bouyancy, and instead making them into "underwater planes" or "sharks"...
Didn't Magnus Pyke's dad invent carriers that were made of ice?
 
#13
Faith and a golden rivet...
 
#14
In the littoral waters of the Baltics, how useful are the MCMVs in detecting enemy submarines? If they can be employed in the detection would it not make sense with the 'proposed' retirement of 2 MCMVs, to give them to the Baltic States?
I don't think that we will be gifting them... There may well, however, be a deal to be done.
 
#15
Didn't Magnus Pyke's dad invent carriers that were made of ice?
His first cousin, actually. Geoffrey Pike, inventor of Pykrete.
there was an interesting thought experiment about making submarines out of concrete, and obviating the very expensive pressure hull and requirement for bouyancy, and instead making them into "underwater planes" or "sharks"...
My favourite idea concerned the anti-submarine defence of UK ports, harbours and anchorages during the Second World War.

It would have required two sailors in a rowing boat with a pair of binoculars and a pot of green paint. When they spotted the periscope of a U-boat, they would row over to it and paint its lens with the green paint.

The U-boat commander, thinking he was still below periscope depth, would keep trying to ascend. When his submarine reached an altitude of a couple of hundred feet in the air, it would be easy to bring down with anti-aircraft fire.
 
#16
To
His first cousin, actually. Geoffrey Pike, inventor of Pykrete.
My favourite idea concerned the anti-submarine defence of UK ports, harbours and anchorages during the Second World War.

It would have required two sailors in a rowing boat with a pair of binoculars and a pot of green paint. When they spotted the periscope of a U-boat, they would row over to it and paint its lens with the green paint.

The U-boat commander, thinking he was still below periscope depth, would keep trying to ascend. When his submarine reached an altitude of a couple of hundred feet in the air, it would be easy to bring down with anti-aircraft fire.
To be fair, when Nasmith penetrated the Golden Horn at Istanbul in HMS E11, the only problem he encountered was when a gallant Ottoman fisherman rowed over to his periscope and bear-hugged it. Nasmith very gently lowered the periscope and drove off to a different spot from which to continue his recce...
 
#17
In a nutshell, minehunting sonars tend to be higher frequency to provide precise range, bearing and resolution of relatively small contacts to enable their classification, identification and disposal or recovery. They also tend to have a comparatively low power output owing to constraints on transducer size, especially in towed bodies or ROVs, This all results in reduced range owing to greater attenuation.
Active ASW sonars tend to be lower frequency and much more powerful with bigger transducers. This gives them substantially greater ranges against large contacts owing to reduced attenuation.
My question was about operation in the littoral waters of the Baltics where you want to identify a big metal lump in the water and either force it away or force it up, maybe at no particular distance to the 'hunter' but a cheaper solution than a dedicated ASW platform - which are in short supply.
 
#18
My question was about operation in the littoral waters of the Baltics where you want to identify a big metal lump in the water and either force it away or force it up, maybe at no particular distance to the 'hunter' but a cheaper solution than a dedicated ASW platform - which are in short supply.
The Poles still operate four of these in ASW configuration:

Manewry_NATO_Noble_Mariner_(cropped) (1).jpg


They can carry up to 8 x depth bombs/charges or 1 x MU90 homing torpedo:

MU90 Impact - Wikipedia

It will be interesting to see what they are replaced with - my money would be on the MH-60R, as operated by the Danes:

 
#19
My question was about operation in the littoral waters of the Baltics where you want to identify a big metal lump in the water and either force it away or force it up, maybe at no particular distance to the 'hunter' but a cheaper solution than a dedicated ASW platform - which are in short supply.
Nice idea - but the laws of Physics cannot be beaten. Long range detection is everything, and that means proper ASW sonars.
 

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