MC and bar recipients

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by msr, Sep 11, 2005.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. msr

    msr LE

    Dear All,

    Is there a list of MC and bar recipients anywhere? There's an old boy claiming to have both, and seeing as there were only about 500 recipients in WW2, it should be fairly easy to check.

  2. Unless anyone comes up with said list, you could try the London Gazette archives & search by his name.
  3. maninblack

    maninblack LE Book Reviewer

    It is very possible that he did receive the MC and bar, two minutes googling produced the following info.

    "For subsequent awards, a Bar was added to the ribbon, comprising a flat bar with a central spine running horizontally its full length. On the middle is placed a crown, similar to that found on the ends of the arm of the Cross. The date of the award of the bar is inscribed on the reverse of the Bar. During the Second World War, 10,386 Crosses, 482 first Bars and 24 second Bars were awarded."

  4. IIRC there was even a unique 3rd bar awarded. Thought it might have been for the MM - I definitely remember it was to an Australian in WW1.
  5. Four actually. There were also a couple of Mc and two bars plus a DFC awards in the RFC/RAF...which presumably would have been third bars if the RAF and its service-specific decorations had not been instituted.
  6. In 1965 the the TA 'Ever Readies' were mobilised to serve in Aden. Jock Smith, a platoon commander in A Company 5th Battalion the Middlesex Regiment based at Hornsey, North London was one of these and was awarded the Military Cross for actions under fire. An extract from the London Gazette is reproduced below detailing the citation for this award:

    Lieutenant Joseph James Smith (468118) The Middlesex Regiment (Duke of Cambridge's Own) Territorial Army (serving with The Royal Sussex Regiment)

    "On 6th July 1965, Lt. Smith, who was commanding the Piccadilly piquet, manned by 3 Platoon, A Company, 1 Royal Sussex, led an ambush patrol towards the top of the steep rise known as Ludgate Hill. The ambush was in fact sited to intercept dissidents moving along the track leading up from the Wadi Taim; however at 21.20 hours a small party of dissidents were observed coming along the top of the escarpment past the ambush positions. Lieutenant Smith quietly redeployed his ambush and opened fire on the party of dissidents at a range of about 75 yards. Two of the dissidents were seen to fall whilst the remainder scattered and returned the fire of the patrol wounding one of its members.

    Lieutenant Smith then called for Artillery fire on the path of retreat of the dissidents. He himself rendered first aid to the wounded soldier and withdrew his patrol to Piccadilly. He then ordered periodic harassing fire to be brought down on the area of the attack to prevent the dissidents recovering the bodies. At 06.30 hours the next morning he took his patrol back to the scene of the ambush where he recovered two dead Arabs. It subsequently transpired that four dissidents were killed and two wounded.

    It is considered that Lieutenant Smith, a Territorial Army Emergency Reserve Officer, who had only recently joined his battalion displayed outstanding courage and skill in circumstances that would have tested a more experienced Officer."

    Jock's exploits were later immortalised on the cover of the boys comic the 'Hornet' although he is the first to admit that he can't actually remember the Arab dissendents yelling 'Death to the Infidels!" as they attacked.

    Shortly after his return to the UK Jock emigrated to Australia and joined the Royal Australian Regiment, he applied for a posting with the AATTV (Austalian Army Training Team Vietnam) and subsequently won a bar to his MC in 1967. He still lives in Wadonga, Victoria, Australia.
  7. The London Gazette Archives search engine is a bit hit and miss, I,ve entered surnames for known medal winners to be told theirs no matching item.
  8. Just found my Grandfathers MC and Bar listing in the Gazette, very easy to do!
  9. Like I said bit hit and miss sometimes you can turn something up sometimes not, the problem arises when you have a double barrelled name or such like.
  10. cpunk

    cpunk LE Moderator

    All the citations for MCs are there - up to about 2002 - but the London Gazette search engine often doesn't find them, particularly when you are quite specific with dates and names. I eventually found my Grandfather's 1918 MC citation by doing a general search for his surname and then looking at all of the potential 'hits' around the right date. In reality, this didn't take much more than 20 minutes, but of course we're used to getting our information instantaneously these days...