MBE, OBE, CBE, DBE, etc, Question

#1
Hello All,

I was discussing this with a friend today...If a Female Civvy is awarded a OBE, etc, she gets a Bow made from the medal ribbon with the medal mounted. Males, military or Civvy, get a standard medal (a am aware that the ribbion Milly vs. Civvy differs by a stripe).

Now...If a Female member of the Military of award one of these awards, does she get the Male Military version or the Female (Bow) Military version?

Civil Female CBE and Male OBE Versions below

 
#3
The bows are for female civilian dress only. There is no provision for bow-mounted awards to be worn in military uniform. However, there's nothing to stop a female remounting her award on a bow after uniformed service - but it would look odd if she had other medals.
 
#4
All females admitted to the Order in both Military and Civil Divisions are actually presnted with the medal on a bow.

If the medal is to be worn on uniform, it would have to be remounted. I guess this doesn't really matter as a serving soldier would be unlikely to have this as their only medal.
 

Auld-Yin

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#6
Harry Paget Flashman said:
All females admitted to the Order in both Military and Civil Divisions are actually presnted with the medal on a bow.

If the medal is to be worn on uniform, it would have to be remounted. I guess this doesn't really matter as a serving soldier would be unlikely to have this as their only medal.
So, if they turn up in best bib-n-tucker al la MOD with a string of ribbons from other tours, do they still get a bow mounted medal?

In Johnson Beharry's book, he tells how he gets the 'gong' from Betty, but then goes through to another room where he hands it over and gets the real one! WTF is that all about?
 
#7
miniTJ said:
it doesn't have to be remounted though for mess dress - have seen it many times!
A miniature has to be purchased for Mess Dress. I suppose a lady could specify a ribbon bow for her miniature but that would seem to be outside the above question as a miniature is not presented, only the full size medal.
 
#8
It seems to happen the other way round as well. I met that Kate Adie at a military dinner and she was wareing her M(?)BE together with a GRANBY medal conventionally mounted together as minatures.
 
#9
Harry Paget Flashman said:
All females admitted to the Order in both Military and Civil Divisions are actually presnted with the medal on a bow.
Military females get the same medal as the men, not the one on the bow.

Auld-Yin - once the medal has been presented, the recipient goes to an ante-room where the flunky removes the hook that had been attached to the recipient's jacket, puts the medal in a box and hands it back to you. There is no medal switching going on!
 
#10
Apollonia said:
Military females get the same medal as the men, not the one on the bow.
If you know better old chap, of course I give way.

However, my statement comes from a friend of mine who's Mum (Cpl. UDR) was awarded a Military Division BEM. This was presented on a bow (she collected it in uniform, with BEM and GSM ribbons already sewn on) and she had it remounted alongside her GSM.
 
#11
Harry Paget Flashman said:
Apollonia said:
Military females get the same medal as the men, not the one on the bow.
If you know better old chap, of course I give way.

However, my statement comes from a friend of mine who's Mum (Cpl. UDR) was awarded a Military Division BEM. This was presented on a bow (she collected it in uniform, with BEM and GSM ribbons already sewn on) and she had it remounted alongside her GSM.
I was speaking from personal experience (as a chapess) I was presented with a gong last year in uniform and bows were not even mentioned. Maybe your friend's mum got hers some time ago and since then someone has realised that a female in the military will not need the bow mounting?
 

Auld-Yin

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#12
Apollonia said:
Harry Paget Flashman said:
All females admitted to the Order in both Military and Civil Divisions are actually presnted with the medal on a bow.
Military females get the same medal as the men, not the one on the bow.

Auld-Yin - once the medal has been presented, the recipient goes to an ante-room where the flunky removes the hook that had been attached to the recipient's jacket, puts the medal in a box and hands it back to you. There is no medal switching going on!
Aps - get what you are saying. But as I have never, and am extremely unlikely to, been invited to Buck House for tea & medals, I can only go with what Johnson Beharry's book says.

p 359

She holds out her hand and I shake it. Then I step back, bow, and carry on to another side room, where I am to collect the real medal. The one pinned to my chest is for ceremonial purposes only.
That is from Johnson's book - a fine read by the way, so I have to take it from someone who has actually been there. The photo of him receiving the Cross clearly show the hook, therefore not pinned.

However there are quite a few factual 'gaffs' such as saluting his CSM and calling him Sgt Maj all the time instead of Sir. These are very minor points from a fine story.
 
#13
Apollonia said:
Harry Paget Flashman said:
Apollonia said:
Military females get the same medal as the men, not the one on the bow.
If you know better old chap, of course I give way.

However, my statement comes from a friend of mine who's Mum (Cpl. UDR) was awarded a Military Division BEM. This was presented on a bow (she collected it in uniform, with BEM and GSM ribbons already sewn on) and she had it remounted alongside her GSM.
I was speaking from personal experience (as a chapess) I was presented with a gong last year in uniform and bows were not even mentioned. Maybe your friend's mum got hers some time ago and since then someone has realised that a female in the military will not need the bow mounting?
In that case I bow to greater knowledge. It was actually in the early 1980s I believe.
 
#14
Auld-Yin - once the medal has been presented, the recipient goes to an ante-room where the flunky removes the hook that had been attached to the recipient's jacket, puts the medal in a box and hands it back to you. There is no medal switching going on!

Exactly the same process for me to! - Although the value of the VC both financially and nationally might bring with it a seperate set of rules regarding the handling of it.. Just my input!
 
#16
Harry Paget Flashman said:
Apollonia said:
Harry Paget Flashman said:
Apollonia said:
Military females get the same medal as the men, not the one on the bow.
If you know better old chap, of course I give way.

However, my statement comes from a friend of mine who's Mum (Cpl. UDR) was awarded a Military Division BEM. This was presented on a bow (she collected it in uniform, with BEM and GSM ribbons already sewn on) and she had it remounted alongside her GSM.
I was speaking from personal experience (as a chapess) I was presented with a gong last year in uniform and bows were not even mentioned. Maybe your friend's mum got hers some time ago and since then someone has realised that a female in the military will not need the bow mounting?
In that case I bow to greater knowledge. It was actually in the early 1980s I believe.
My bold - Harry, was that deliberate?
 
#17
R an R said:
Auld-Yin - once the medal has been presented, the recipient goes to an ante-room where the flunky removes the hook that had been attached to the recipient's jacket, puts the medal in a box and hands it back to you. There is no medal switching going on!

Exactly the same process for me to! - Although the value of the VC both financially and nationally might bring with it a seperate set of rules regarding the handling of it.. Just my input!
By th e logic of your argument you seem to be suggesting that her majesty can't be trusted with the real VC she is presenting?

I think a more logical explanation is that Beharry's description of the event could have been polished to more accurately describe the process of removing the hook and placing the medal in it's presentation box.
 
#18
Rhino_Stopper said:
Kate Adie has a Granby medal ? what for ? She was a journo and not serving right ?
she was embedded with the forces and met the eligibility criteria having been in theatre the pre-requisite number of days.

It has been this way since at least WW2, any civvies who are actually embedded or employed by the forces and meet the eligibility criteria get the medal.
 
#19
Auld-Yin said:
Harry Paget Flashman said:
All females admitted to the Order in both Military and Civil Divisions are actually presnted with the medal on a bow.

If the medal is to be worn on uniform, it would have to be remounted. I guess this doesn't really matter as a serving soldier would be unlikely to have this as their only medal.
So, if they turn up in best bib-n-tucker al la MOD with a string of ribbons from other tours, do they still get a bow mounted medal?

In Johnson Beharry's book, he tells how he gets the 'gong' from Betty, but then goes through to another room where he hands it over and gets the real one! WTF is that all about?
Procedure for a Royal Investiture is that you wear all your medal ribbons, including medal to be awarded, but not the medals themselves. You get a small metal hook which the Queen (or whatever Royal you get) then hangs medal onto, afterwards the medal and pin is removed in the anti-room, and the same medal is boxed. It would be a letdown not to have your own VC pinned on by Her Majesty I would think?
 

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