Maybe a bit harsh?

#1
Summary of Evidence in the case of No. 227 Pte Patrick Downey, 6. Leinster Regiment.

First Witness: No 9207 C.S.M. Bagnall states-

"On the 26th November 1915, or thereabouts, I ordered the accused to fall in at 2.30 p.m. for fatigue. The accused replied "I wont", I repeated the order, and accused answered "No", Capt Cradock ordered accused to put on his cap and accused replied "No I wont". [signed: W. Bagnall C.S.M.]

The accused declines to cross-examine this witness.

Second Witness: No 7905 Sgt Mackey 6 Bn Leinster. R. states:

"On the 26th November 1915 at about 2.30 PM I ordered accused to fall in, accused replied "No I wont fall in". C.S. Maj Bagnall also ordered accused to fall in, and accused replied "No I wont fall in". [singed C. Mackey Sgt.]

The accused declines to cross examine the witness. The accused reserves his defence. Taken down by me in the presence of the accused this 30th day of November 1915.RP4 (c) (d) (c) has been complied with.

[signed:] H.W. Andrews Capt. & Adj. 6 Bn. Leinster Regt. R. Mansergh Capt. President FGCM

The Schedule states that Downey was charged with:-

"On active service disobeying a lawful command in such a manner as to show wilful disobedience of authority given personally by his superior officer in the execution of his office."

Downey was undefended at his court martial. The actual record is reproduced below:-

Proceedings in the case of No.227 Private Downey 6th Leinster Regiment.

The Accused No.227 Private Downey 6th Leinster Regiment pleads Guilty to the charge.

Capt. H.W. Andrews 6th Leinster Regiment having been duly sworn states:-

I produce AFB 122

Refusing to comply with an order - one entry

Losing by neglect - three " "

Disregarding Bn. order - one " "

Drunkenness - one " "

Miscellaneous - two " "

[#crossed out with a single line in the original: "The accused is also awaiting sentence by Court Martial at the present time."]

[Note in margin, relating to # above] Awarded (84) eighty-four days Field Punishment No.1 by Field General Court Martial for insubordination on the 25th November 1915

Character: Very bad

The accused has fifteen months present service

Age: nineteen (19) years & nine (9) months

The accused states he has previously served for two months in the 5th SR Royal Munster Fusiliers.

The accused in mitigation of punishment states that he was never in prison in civil life.

Sentence:

The court sentence the accused no.227 Private P. Downey 6 (S) Bn. Leinster Regiment to suffer death by being shot.

The sentence passed by the court was agreed unanimously and the proceedings were referred Lt. General Bernard Mahon, Commanding British Force in Greece. Before forwarding the papers to the Command-in-Chief, Mahon commented:

Under ordinary circumstances I would have hesitated to recommend that the Capital Sentence awarded be put into effect as a plea of guilty has erroneously been accepted by the Court, but the condition of discipline in the Battalion is such as to render an exemplary punishment highly desirable and I therefore hope that the Commander in Chief will see fit to approve the sentence of death in this instance.

[signed:] B. Mahon, Lieutenant General Commanding British Force in GREECE.

H.Qrs. British Force

SALONIKA

12th December 1915
And, yes - he was shot. May even have been under age at time of enlistment and should not even have been in the army.[/quote]
 
#2
OldRedCap said:
Summary of Evidence in the case of No. 227 Pte Patrick Downey, 6. Leinster Regiment.

First Witness: No 9207 C.S.M. Bagnall states-

"On the 26th November 1915, or thereabouts, I ordered the accused to fall in at 2.30 p.m. for fatigue. The accused replied "I wont", I repeated the order, and accused answered "No", Capt Cradock ordered accused to put on his cap and accused replied "No I wont". [signed: W. Bagnall C.S.M.]

The accused declines to cross-examine this witness.

Second Witness: No 7905 Sgt Mackey 6 Bn Leinster. R. states:

"On the 26th November 1915 at about 2.30 PM I ordered accused to fall in, accused replied "No I wont fall in". C.S. Maj Bagnall also ordered accused to fall in, and accused replied "No I wont fall in". [singed C. Mackey Sgt.]

The accused declines to cross examine the witness. The accused reserves his defence. Taken down by me in the presence of the accused this 30th day of November 1915.RP4 (c) (d) (c) has been complied with.

[signed:] H.W. Andrews Capt. & Adj. 6 Bn. Leinster Regt. R. Mansergh Capt. President FGCM

The Schedule states that Downey was charged with:-

"On active service disobeying a lawful command in such a manner as to show wilful disobedience of authority given personally by his superior officer in the execution of his office."

Downey was undefended at his court martial. The actual record is reproduced below:-

Proceedings in the case of No.227 Private Downey 6th Leinster Regiment.

The Accused No.227 Private Downey 6th Leinster Regiment pleads Guilty to the charge.

Capt. H.W. Andrews 6th Leinster Regiment having been duly sworn states:-

I produce AFB 122

Refusing to comply with an order - one entry

Losing by neglect - three " "

Disregarding Bn. order - one " "

Drunkenness - one " "

Miscellaneous - two " "

[#crossed out with a single line in the original: "The accused is also awaiting sentence by Court Martial at the present time."]

[Note in margin, relating to # above] Awarded (84) eighty-four days Field Punishment No.1 by Field General Court Martial for insubordination on the 25th November 1915

Character: Very bad

The accused has fifteen months present service

Age: nineteen (19) years & nine (9) months

The accused states he has previously served for two months in the 5th SR Royal Munster Fusiliers.

The accused in mitigation of punishment states that he was never in prison in civil life.

Sentence:

The court sentence the accused no.227 Private P. Downey 6 (S) Bn. Leinster Regiment to suffer death by being shot.

The sentence passed by the court was agreed unanimously and the proceedings were referred Lt. General Bernard Mahon, Commanding British Force in Greece. Before forwarding the papers to the Command-in-Chief, Mahon commented:

Under ordinary circumstances I would have hesitated to recommend that the Capital Sentence awarded be put into effect as a plea of guilty has erroneously been accepted by the Court, but the condition of discipline in the Battalion is such as to render an exemplary punishment highly desirable and I therefore hope that the Commander in Chief will see fit to approve the sentence of death in this instance.

[signed:] B. Mahon, Lieutenant General Commanding British Force in GREECE.

H.Qrs. British Force

SALONIKA

12th December 1915
And, yes - he was shot. May even have been under age at time of enlistment and should not even have been in the army.
[/quote]

what,No remand for social enquiry reports?
 
#4
Catterick circa 1981........Cpl's club do..
staggers homeward bound approx 4.30 am through recruit barracks heading for qtr.

gets stopped by guard and ROO a lt. who actually was in my sqn a few month earlier..
who are you soldier
..pished reply..jush going home sir,..
ROO whats your name..
Pished answer OH FFS!...Cpl cc staggers away ish....
guard sent to apprehend me..
charged following morning : stating a falsehood :lol: something like on asking cpl cc his name he replied oh FFS!..i had reasonable doubt as to this was his name.....!!

OC sniggers.... accept my award..

Cpl cc..yes sir!
OC gulity £5 march him out ssm...

bloody glad it wasn't in 1915 i can tell you.
 
#5
And extras for the arrse Officer that wasted to OCs time....
 
#6
Quite right too, it sounds as if Blandford could do with a bit of that! :wink:
 
#7
OldRedCap said:
Under ordinary circumstances I would have hesitated to recommend that the Capital Sentence awarded be put into effect as a plea of guilty has erroneously been accepted by the Court, but the condition of discipline in the Battalion is such as to render an exemplary punishment highly desirable and I therefore hope that the Commander in Chief will see fit to approve the sentence of death in this instance.

[signed:] B. Mahon, Lieutenant General Commanding British Force in GREECE.

H.Qrs. British Force

SALONIKA

.
this is what it comes down to

the troops were pissed off and restless for being stuck in greece on a campaign that never was and suffering greatly from illness and disease

the officers solution:-

shoot a tom to improve moral

why dosent this suprise me?
 
#9
This post is not a wind up.
Different ages had different standards and to compare our 'Nanny' state in its ultra tolerant frame of mind with a War time army losing tens of thousands per month killed on the Western Front is not really on.
The guy had enlistent underage and would from 'Evidenced' produced seem to be a bad soldier who even when his life is on the line 'Couldn't be bothered' to to plead his case.
I remember there was a 15 year old sailor won the VC at Jutland a case of different attitude.
I don't suppose I was the perfect soldier. I do beleive I was a good junior and a good young Sgt. I know I was a stroppy old Senior who deliberatly pushed the 'System' over certain matters that I felt strongly on.
I doubt tho if I would have had the balls to push the System over a Trial with my life on the line.
john
Strange people the Irish, as my generation found out over twenty odd years of my service.
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#11
I just love it, getting a scrote for a ABH or theft, working 3 weeks to get the file sorted, viewing CCTV, ID parades and statements. They go to get court, plead guilty and get a £30 fine! Magistrates- we love you all!
 
#12
#13
A rosette worn with the medal ribbon denoted the bar. All awards of the MC were announced in the London Gazette, usually with a citation, although awards made as part of the King's Birthday or New Year's honours were made for reasons of meritorious service and do not usually have a citation.


37,081 MC's were awarded in the war; in addition 2,992* men were awarded a bar to the MC; 176 a second bar; and 4 men ( Capt. P. Bentley [KOYLI]; Lieut. H. Gilkes [21st Bn, London Regiment]; T/Capt. C. Timms [RAMC]; 2/Lieut. F. Wallington [RFA]) a third bar.
Unbelievable heroism that one never realises.
 

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