MATT 6 – A fatal flaw in the plan

G

Goku

Guest
#1
I’ve been reading through the MATT 6 pdf (values and standards) and think I may have spotted a problem with the test.

It comes with the question and answer sheet :roll:
See page 35.

Presuming that the same question sheet is to be used every year, I’ll be getting 100% every year.

Never mind that the questions are so simple that anything less than 100% shouldn’t be possible, but whoever uploaded the answer sheet to the Internet really is a muppet.

- edit to correct link

- edit again to add

The question and answer sheet is also included on MATT 4 (CBRN)
 
#2
Well spotted. Might be a flaw in the FOI and transparency of army training methods. I'm sure the MATTs PAMs are meant to be training aids given to those instructing MATTs rather than those being tested on them maybe?
 
G

Goku

Guest
#3
Fair point and I did say “presuming“ :D
When I come to sit MATT 4 & 6, if I’m given the same question sheet as in the pdf files…

Oh will I be chuckling :D
 
#4
Getting the questions right is the easy thing, fighting the urge to put the wrong, yet totally comical (and alarmingly truthful answer) is the hard thing!

"Video Clip 2 - The bar. You see your mate chatting up a Pte's wife. Would you do the right thing?"

a. Ignore the advice, and go out with her anyway?
b. Take her number and call her later?
c. Take the advice and tell her you have changed your mind?
d. Contact the wife's husband on Ops and let him know the score?

what about "e. Do (A) then (D)"? :lol:
 
#5
Jimbleep said:
Getting the questions right is the easy thing, fighting the urge to put the wrong, yet totally comical (and alarmingly truthful answer) is the hard thing!

"Video Clip 2 - The bar. You see your mate chatting up a Pte's wife. Would you do the right thing?"

a. Ignore the advice, and go out with her anyway?
b. Take her number and call her later?
c. Take the advice and tell her you have changed your mind?
d. Contact the wife's husband on Ops and let him know the score?

what about "e. Do (A) then (D)"? :lol:
e. Cover her in oil and set fire to her for being an adulterous whore, as demanded by the 15th century Catholic Church.


It's a little used, but no less valid option.
 
#6
Yes the questions are the ones posted on the Internet (although for CBRN you do not answer them all).

However,

a) the MATT 6 ones are fairly basic assuming you stayed awake in the presentation/dvd
b) the CBRN ones cover stuff we should know anyway as part of ITDs and only accounts for a small part of the testing process.

All in all IMHO there are not huge differences (except PFT and Nav inclusion) from the ITDs to the MATTs even at lvl 1.

Regards
Wilms
 
#7
Who dreams up this stuff anyhow? we did matt 6 the other week with a civvy vicar, we tortured the poor guy!
 
#8
Jimbleep said:
Getting the questions right is the easy thing, fighting the urge to put the wrong, yet totally comical (and alarmingly truthful answer) is the hard thing!

"Video Clip 2 - The bar. You see your mate chatting up a Pte's wife. Would you do the right thing?"

a. Ignore the advice, and go out with her anyway?
b. Take her number and call her later?
c. Take the advice and tell her you have changed your mind?
d. Contact the wife's husband on Ops and let him know the score?

what about "e. Do (A) then (D)"? :lol:
What about f. Get caught by the Troop Staffy, who threatens to cut off any bloke's nackers who messes about with the wife of a mate on tour :evil:
 
#9
Goku said:
Presuming that the same question sheet is to be used every year, I’ll be getting 100% every year.

Never mind that the questions are so simple that anything less than 100% shouldn’t be possible, but whoever uploaded the answer sheet to the Internet really is a muppet.
This question was raised on the roadshow that i went on. The reply was that anyone sad enough to do some prior reading is effectively learning the material anyway and so doing the instructor a favour. They also said that the question banks change every 3 years.
 
G

Goku

Guest
#10
Whoever told you that bollix is just making excuses.
By giving out the MATTs Q&A you eliminate the need to pay attention to the instructors, and absorb and understand what is being taught.
In theory I could tip up to MATT 4 & 6 with the answers to the test written down in my note pad, sleep through the lesson, and then pass without putting any effort in.

You wouldn’t find schools giving students the answers to a test they haven’t sat yet.
It’s not a test if you already know the answer.

Cheating used to happen under the old ITD system, it’s encouraging to see that’s encouraged by those who designed MATTs.
 
#11
Goku said:
Whoever told you that bollix is just making excuses.
By giving out the MATTs Q&A you eliminate the need to pay attention to the instructors, and absorb and understand what is being taught.
In theory I could tip up to MATT 4 & 6 with the answers to the test written down in my note pad, sleep through the lesson, and then pass without putting any effort in.

You wouldn’t find schools giving students the answers to a test they haven’t sat yet.
It’s not a test if you already know the answer.

Cheating used to happen under the old ITD system, it’s encouraging to see that’s encouraged by those who designed MATTs.
Lets face it if you require to cheat on MATT 6 you have probably just come back from a tour at Abu Graib. As for MATT 4 if your instructor allows you to pull out your notebook when being asked those questions, then he is a weak and shouldn't be in charge of any manpower. I don't think that cheating is being encouraged, after all in most distance learning packs i've used the answers are included in the back anyway. The question banks that are provided ensure that you wouldn't know which questions you are going to be asked, as long as the instructor administers the test properly. I agree with you on the point that you wouldn't give school students answers to the tests, but then schools don't teach CBRN (not when i was there anyway!). All these tests are not particulary hard anyway.
 
G

Goku

Guest
#12
if your instructor allows you to pull out your notebook when being asked those questions, then he is a weak and shouldn't be in charge of any manpower
You’ve never seen how the ITDs were conducted have you? :roll:

I don't think that cheating is being encouraged, after all in most distance learning packs i've used the answers are included in the back anyway
Fair point but these pdf files aren’t distance learning packs are they.
If that’s what they were intended to be then why weren’t we either issued them or told to download them ourselves?

The question banks that are provided ensure that you wouldn't know which questions you are going to be asked, as long as the instructor administers the test properly
There aren’t that many questions, it wouldn’t take too much trouble to copy them all into a notepad.

All these tests are not particulary hard anyway.
No they’re not and I can’t imagine why anyone should need to cheat.

I’m simply saying that it’s not very clever to provide the Q&A to a test (even a very basic test) that we haven’t even sat yet.

Shall we agree to disagree?
You say it’s a learning aid (although I’m puzzled as to why you would produce a learning aid and not issue it) and I say that whoever published it is a muppet :D
 
#13
This happens in a number of MATTS (ie CBRN questions). The idea is that you should know these anyway, and if you don't then here are revision guides for you to ensure that you know the subject well enough to pass.
Either that OR, Heaven forbid, some chap somewhere has dropped an almighty b*ll*ck. Although i can't imagine the British army ever doing that.
 
#14
Goku said:
if your instructor allows you to pull out your notebook when being asked those questions, then he is a weak and shouldn't be in charge of any manpower
You’ve never seen how the ITDs were conducted have you? :roll:

I don't think that cheating is being encouraged, after all in most distance learning packs i've used the answers are included in the back anyway
Fair point but these pdf files aren’t distance learning packs are they.
If that’s what they were intended to be then why weren’t we either issued them or told to download them ourselves?

The question banks that are provided ensure that you wouldn't know which questions you are going to be asked, as long as the instructor administers the test properly
There aren’t that many questions, it wouldn’t take too much trouble to copy them all into a notepad.

All these tests are not particulary hard anyway.
No they’re not and I can’t imagine why anyone should need to cheat.

I’m simply saying that it’s not very clever to provide the Q&A to a test (even a very basic test) that we haven’t even sat yet.

Shall we agree to disagree?
You say it’s a learning aid (although I’m puzzled as to why you would produce a learning aid and not issue it) and I say that whoever published it is a muppet :D
Thing is Goku, I now know that you have the answers, so no note pads for you when you sit the test!! :wink:
 
#15
Goku said:
Whoever told you that bollix is just making excuses.
VerminWA said:

Thing is Goku, I now know that you have the answers, so no note pads for you when you sit the test!!
Goku, if I were you, I would give in while you are almost winning mate.
 
G

Goku

Guest
#16
Dale the snail said:
Goku, if I were you, I would give in while you are almost winning mate.
I think I’ve already won, unless someone else wants to try and tell me I stumbled on a learning aid which has been available for several months but hasn’t been made public knowledge :roll:

VerminWA said:
Thing is Goku, I now know that you have the answers, so no note pads for you when you sit the test!! :wink:
But it’s a “learning aid”… apparently :D

And here I was looking forward to proving a point to myself by getting a bit of extra sleep and full marks on the day :D

Oh well, there’s always next year, or the year after that.
Haven’t you heard? This learning aid only changes every 3yrs… oopps :slow:
 
#17
Goku said:
if your instructor allows you to pull out your notebook when being asked those questions, then he is a weak and shouldn't be in charge of any manpower
You’ve never seen how the ITDs were conducted have you? :roll:

I don't think that cheating is being encouraged, after all in most distance learning packs i've used the answers are included in the back anyway
Fair point but these pdf files aren’t distance learning packs are they.
If that’s what they were intended to be then why weren’t we either issued them or told to download them ourselves?

The question banks that are provided ensure that you wouldn't know which questions you are going to be asked, as long as the instructor administers the test properly
There aren’t that many questions, it wouldn’t take too much trouble to copy them all into a notepad.

All these tests are not particulary hard anyway.
No they’re not and I can’t imagine why anyone should need to cheat.

I’m simply saying that it’s not very clever to provide the Q&A to a test (even a very basic test) that we haven’t even sat yet.

Shall we agree to disagree?
You say it’s a learning aid (although I’m puzzled as to why you would produce a learning aid and not issue it) and I say that whoever published it is a muppet :D
I have been 'in' long enough to witness and be part of some good and poor training and so i think youre being a little bit patronising there. I was using distance learning as an example and was not suggesting that MATTs were published to be used in this way. If any one wants to view the answers before the test, that should be no problem as if the test is administered correctly they would not be able to cheat. I think the idea is that this is not rocket science, this is a refreshment of what is taught at phase 1. I don't think anything can be done about instructors who allow cheating unless there was some sort of MATT school and get rid of distributed training.

The questions that are provided for MATT 4 are pretty much complete as i see it. I think you would struggle to think of any more that could be asked for the standard that needs to be achieved. All of these could be pulled straight out of 'survive to fight' anyway. If you look at the table the questions are in upto 8 soldiers can be tested at once and so there are a considerable amount of questions to write in your notebook of which not all will be asked. Besides, these are supposed to be oral questions anyway and so the instructor should be able to notice you looking at your notebook when asked.
 
G

Goku

Guest
#18
MATTs may just be a refresher of phase 1 training, all the required information may be found in ‘survive to fight’, the questions may be simple, the questions may be common sense, but it is still a test; a test that the mod obviously thinks is important because if we don’t pass then we don’t get our bounty.

The test becomes unfair when I know the exact wording of the questions to be asked and their answers, it’s unfair when I already know the answers to the multiple choice question.

For all you know I could be the thickest squaddie in the Army, I could have completely forgotten my NBC training from phase 1, I could sit through the MATT 4 lesson and not understand a word the instructor said, I could read through the MATT 4 pdf and not understand a word of it… but if I memorised the Q&A I’d still pass and get my full bounty.

Does that sound fair, does it sound like cheating?
 
#19
Goku said:
MATTs may just be a refresher of phase 1 training, all the required information may be found in ‘survive to fight’, the questions may be simple, the questions may be common sense, but it is still a test; a test that the mod obviously thinks is important because if we don’t pass then we don’t get our bounty.

The test becomes unfair when I know the exact wording of the questions to be asked and their answers, it’s unfair when I already know the answers to the multiple choice question.

For all you know I could be the thickest squaddie in the Army, I could have completely forgotten my NBC training from phase 1, I could sit through the MATT 4 lesson and not understand a word the instructor said, I could read through the MATT 4 pdf and not understand a word of it… but if I memorised the Q&A I’d still pass and get my full bounty.

Does that sound fair, does it sound like cheating?
For starters if the soldier does not understand what the instructor is teaching, this will be picked up through lesson confirmation and so addressed. Admittedly they must be a competent instructor, but that is the job of the hierachy to select the appropriate instructor and to ensure that training is carried out correctly.

You are obviously having a laugh about a soldier learning 32 questions and answers for the CBRN test aren't you? In my experience if a soldier can remember that much they are probably not thick. I think the idea behind MATT 6 is to try and change attitudes and behaviours and so there needs to be alot of discussing about appropriate actions taken. I really don't think it is that big a deal, obviously has got your goat though! My unit is pretty much happy with the package and have no problems with having the answers on the net. I think its all a question of good management and instruction which by the sounds of it your unit has not got.
 
G

Goku

Guest
#20
I’m actually just picking holes in areas where I see problems, I’ve said nothing about the quality of management or instruction at my unit – there’s no need for cheap shots :wink:

We’re obviously not going to agree on this.
I honestly believe that publishing the Q&A is a joke, I’ve already said why, there’s no convincing me otherwise.

Have you seen the thread about the balls up with MATT 1?
I’m beginning to see a pattern here, I wonder how many other issues will be raised in the coming months?

While we’re on the subject of MATT 6, can I ask whose bright idea it was to make it part of our bounty test?
While I would agree that lessons on security, equal opportunities, and drug abuse are important; they’re the kind of lessons that shouldn’t need to be repeated every year.
As for the values section of MATT 6, if you’re the kind of chap that would shag a mates wife and then phone him up while he’s on ops and tell him all about it… well a 1hr lesson on the subject isn’t going to show you the error of your ways is it?

We traded in our recognition ITD which is an important military skill (particularly for those who are inexperienced and due to go out to Iraq) for MATT 6 :roll:
 
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