Massive job and budget cuts expected for French military

#1
Massive job and budget cuts expected for French military

Created 2013-04-29 13:09
By RFI
France
Up to 24,000 French military jobs are said to be on the line as the French government prepares to release a new defence white paper later today. The paper comes amid discussions about France’s future military role, particularly in Africa.

The white paper, nine months in the making, will set out French military expenditure between 2014 and 2019.

It is expected to recommend between 20,000 and 24,000 job cuts over the next four years, according to the French business daily Les Echos and the national daily Le Monde. However, the number of posts lost in individual army department has not been decided.

Military spending will be frozen at 31.4 billion euros next year. By 2015, the economic ministry reportedly wants it lowered to 28 billion euros, according to Le Monde.

Total military spending from 2014 and 2019 will be 179.2 billion euros.

The previous president, Nicholas Sarkozy, began the process of cutting 54,000 military posts between 2008 and 2015.

The paper is expected to maintain French military bases in Africa. In January, France led a military intervention to drive out Islamists in northern Mali.

President François Hollande is said to be keen on France maintaining close military ties with the rest of Europe and NATO.

The white paper will be presented to parliament and be voted on after the summer.

Massive job and budget cuts expected for French military - France - RFI

So 24,000 + 10,000 from the previous round of cuts, that leave a total of 34,000 servicemen and women still to go....

The Armed forces have given Hollande the one and only success of his tenure and guess what ? They are the first to be axed...why am I not surprised ?
 
#2
Massive job and budget cuts expected for French military

Created 2013-04-29 13:09
By RFI
France
Up to 24,000 French military jobs are said to be on the line as the French government prepares to release a new defence white paper later today. The paper comes amid discussions about France’s future military role, particularly in Africa.

The white paper, nine months in the making, will set out French military expenditure between 2014 and 2019.

It is expected to recommend between 20,000 and 24,000 job cuts over the next four years, according to the French business daily Les Echos and the national daily Le Monde. However, the number of posts lost in individual army department has not been decided.

Military spending will be frozen at 31.4 billion euros next year. By 2015, the economic ministry reportedly wants it lowered to 28 billion euros, according to Le Monde.

Total military spending from 2014 and 2019 will be 179.2 billion euros.

The previous president, Nicholas Sarkozy, began the process of cutting 54,000 military posts between 2008 and 2015.

The paper is expected to maintain French military bases in Africa. In January, France led a military intervention to drive out Islamists in northern Mali.

President François Hollande is said to be keen on France maintaining close military ties with the rest of Europe and NATO.

The white paper will be presented to parliament and be voted on after the summer.

Massive job and budget cuts expected for French military - France - RFI

So 24,000 + 10,000 from the previous round of cuts, that leave a total of 34,000 servicemen and women still to go....

The Armed forces have given Hollande the one and only success of his tenure and guess what ? They are the first to be axed...why am I not surprised ?
He's a politician - why are you surprised should be the main centre of your reasoning.

8-O FFS you didn't trust him did you?
 
#3
A case of use or lose it, but also one of use it and lose it anyway :)
There appear to be deeper currents at work here, since govs of both the right and the left over Europe are looking to reduce military spending.
 
#4
A case of use or lose it, but also one of use it and lose it anyway :)
There appear to be deeper currents at work here, since govs of both the right and the left over Europe are looking to reduce military spending.
The deeper currents are that Governments don't care about their primary roles of defending the (in our case) Realm and more about stuffing more money into social welfare programmes and bankers pockets - both at the same time.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
I blame poor education. If they'd had more history they might have studied the fall of the Roman empire. Bread and circuses, a lack of a citzenry prepared to fight and the overuse of mercenaries.
 
#6
The priority of Hollande over the past year was to make sure arrse bandits could marry and adopt. This now being done, next priority is to destroy the armed forces and prop up the gendarmerie which is soon going to be bigger in number than the army.

As for the army, it will soon fit in the stade de France with plenty of space left for guests.
 
#7
Its nothing to do with the political leanings of the French Government is principally the pan european financial problems all governments across Europe are looking for cost reductions, the fact the cold war is over justified this continued down sizing

Sad fact of life I am afraid......
 
#8
The deeper currents are that Governments don't care about their primary roles of defending the (in our case) Realm and more about stuffing more money into social welfare programmes and bankers pockets - both at the same time.
Define current "existential" threats to the UK / France?
 
#9
The priority of Hollande over the past year was to make sure arrse bandits could marry and adopt. This now being done, next priority is to destroy the armed forces and prop up the gendarmerie which is soon going to be bigger in number than the army.

As for the army, it will soon fit in the stade de France with plenty of space left for guests.
I was under the impression that the Gendarmarie was part of the French Army - at least that's what my French brother-in-law told me, and his son transferred from Army Aviation into the Gendarmes.
 
#10
Define current "existential" threats to the UK / France?
Islamic threat from Middle East, which is closer to France than the UK

Beyond that. Who knows what threats are going to pop in the next 5 years.

Nobody would have put money on the success of the Arab Spring uprisings, now Syria is in the middle of a Civil war that's dragged on for a couple of years and a whole host of agreements that kept intra-Sate wars in the Middle East are under intense pressure. No one will chuck money down on the table that Egypt might decide that the peace deal with Israel can be dropped. The current government seems intent on throwing away every single promise to keep Egypt as it was under the old regime, maybe that peace deal is worth breaking to keep the the nutter end of The Bortherhood support happy ?

Who knows ?
 
#11
Define current "existential" threats to the UK / France?
Islamic threat from Middle East, which is closer to France than the UK

Beyond that. Who knows what threats are going to pop in the next 5 years.

Nobody would have put money on the success of the Arab Spring uprisings, now Syria is in the middle of a Civil war that's dragged on for a couple of years and a whole host of agreements that kept intra-Sate wars in the Middle East are under intense pressure. No one will chuck money down on the table that Egypt might decide that the peace deal with Israel can be dropped. The current government seems intent on throwing away every single promise to keep Egypt as it was under the old regime, maybe that peace deal is worth breaking to keep the the nutter end of the Brotherhood support happy ?

Who knows ?

It's enough to say that anyone who can predict the shape of the world in 5 years times is a complete deluded f**kwit and should be ignored.
 
#12
Islamic threat from Middle East, which is closer to France than the UK

Beyond that. Who knows what threats are going to pop in the next 5 years.

Nobody would have put money on the success of the Arab Spring uprisings, now Syria is in the middle of a Civil war that's dragged on for a couple of years and a whole host of agreements that kept intra-Sate wars in the Middle East are under intense pressure. No one will chuck money down on the table that Egypt might decide that the peace deal with Israel can be dropped. The current government seems intent on throwing away every single promise to keep Egypt as it was under the old regime, maybe that peace deal is worth breaking to keep the the nutter end of The Bortherhood support happy ?

Who knows ?
France also has a massive North African/Moslem population legacy of its retreat from empire - they must be very twitchy looking at the way North Africa is heading, post Arab Spring.
 
#13
France also has a massive North African/Moslem population legacy of its retreat from empire - they must be very twitchy looking at the way North Africa is heading, post Arab Spring.
Yep......

The main point is that no one can judge what's going to happen over the next few years and it can take decades to get major defense projects to complete.
 
#14
I was under the impression that the Gendarmarie was part of the French Army - at least that's what my French brother-in-law told me, and his son transferred from Army Aviation into the Gendarmes.
The gendarmerie is part of the MoD, the gendarmes are considered as military personnel but the gendarmerie is not part of the army. It is permanently put under MoI command and 95% of its activities are located in France but sometimes it takes part in overseas Op either as a counter riot force (Kosovo) or as rule of law experts (Afghanistan)
 
#15
The gendarmerie is part of the MoD, the gendarmes are considered as military personnel but the gendarmerie is not part of the army. It is permanently put under MoI command and 95% of its activities are located in France but sometimes it takes part in overseas Op either as a counter riot force (Kosovo) or as rule of law experts (Afghanistan)
Thanks for that - I can never find out exactly what the Gendarmarie actually does. My French wife talks airily about 'you can get a bed for the night if you are a soldier on leave' but whenever I spend any time in France there appears to be a number of Police organisations all operating independently. Where, for example, do the responsibilities of the Police Nationale end and the Gendarmarie take over?
 
#16
Islamic threat from Middle East, which is closer to France than the UK

Beyond that. Who knows what threats are going to pop in the next 5 years.
And we've seen how well the traditional defence structures have dealt with that over the last decade.
Islamic terror, nasty, brutish and stupid as it is, has managed to kill remarkably few people in the west. And is certainly not of the type to keep tens of thousands of infantry & cavalry gainfully employed.
In five years, I predict Winter will have come and that dragons will once more be flying over Westero, er, England :)
Large(ish) standing armies require distinct threats. Currently, there are few if any of those (Steven Pinker's latest opus is bringing this into focus). The requirement for an army is unlikely ever to go away, but the kind of defence required is changing.
 
#17
Thanks for that - I can never find out exactly what the Gendarmarie actually does. My French wife talks airily about 'you can get a bed for the night if you are a soldier on leave' but whenever I spend any time in France there appears to be a number of Police organisations all operating independently. Where, for example, do the responsibilities of the Police Nationale end and the Gendarmarie take over?
Easy !

Gendarmerie is in charge of policing rural areas. Gendarmes with silver ranks insignias do this rural policing while those with gold ranks insignias are "gendarmes mobiles" tasked with riot control.

Police nationale is in charge of policing urban areas. Their riot control element are the CRS.

Both police and gendarmerie have intervention (SWAT type) units; GIGN for the gendarmerie, RAID, GIPN and BRI for the police nationale.

Police municipale are recruited and paid by cities and town IOT improve local security. Most are not armes with lethal weapons.
 
#18
Easy !

Gendarmerie is in charge of policing rural areas. Gendarmes with silver ranks insignias do this rural policing while those with gold ranks insignias are "gendarmes mobiles" tasked with riot control.

Police nationale is in charge of policing urban areas. Their riot control element are the CRS.

Both police and gendarmerie have intervention (SWAT type) units; GIGN for the gendarmerie, RAID, GIPN and BRI for the police nationale.

Police municipale are recruited and paid by cities and town IOT improve local security. Most are not armes with lethal weapons.
That would explain why I was pulled over a few years ago by the Gendarmarie for not stopping at a Stop sign - my lady wife got me out of it by saying that I was a stupid Englishman who didn't understand French road signs! So where do the Gendarmarie riot police take over/hand over to the CRS then?
 
#19
I do not know how the HOTO works between the CRS and the "mobiles" but it is often said that the Gendarmes have a tougher approach to riot control than the CRS. They are also easier to deploy in "austere" areas (FRA Guyana, New Caledonia....) because being military personnel they cannot complain about their accomodations like the CRS do. And they do not have trade unions even though the gendarme have a long habit of sending their wives in the front lines when they feel they have been cheated....which is about 90% of the time.
 
#20
In five years, I predict Winter will have come and that dragons will once more be flying over Westero, er, England :)
Large(ish) standing armies require distinct threats. Currently, there are few if any of those (Steven Pinker's latest opus is bringing this into focus). The requirement for an army is unlikely ever to go away, but the kind of defence required is changing.
And not one single talking head has correctly predicted the emergence of a threat in the last 50 years. Sacking big armies with lost of boots and tracked things is easy. Re-growing said army is slow, painful and expensive. Get it wrong, and I doubt that we have any Governments in the west who'd willingly start the ball rolling in the style of the late 30's, and we're f**ked.
 

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