Mass Shootings in the US

I believe it was pointed out further back in this thread that Wyoming has a higher murder rate than London.
Not true, there were 20 murders in Wyoming last year, in 2016 there were 17 murders. In London there were 116 murders and that's excluding the deaths in the Westminster, London Bridge and Finsbury Park terrorist attacks As of April 5th 2018 there has been 55 suspected murders in London.
 
The issue is more with LE & Gov't ineptitude & inefficiency than anything else, as the NICS check should highlight those proscribed from purchasing firearms. It sometimes doesn't because of failures by those administering the system.
Not IMO a good reason to put further restrictions on the vast majority.
Look at firearms homicides; More than 80% of the recovered weapons were possessed illegally, which is something no law can fix, though a mandatory 5 year sentence might be a start for illegal possession, rather than a plea-bargained 2yrs probation.
When you fill out the form to buy a firearm the dealer makes an enquiry to State LE as to your status, they then presumably do an NICS check on you and it gets passed back as approved, or not.

My own status when I had a greencard required that my application was passed to the FBI. Response time varied from 10 minutes to 5 days. 10 minutes? In all reality I don't think so.

The biggest problem that exists is the fragmentation of LE agencies across the country. Locally you have police departments made of of anything from two good ole boys running a countryside police force to forces of several thousand - NYPD, Chicago, LA and the like, with around 100 to 200 being the norm in most major cities - where I live now we have a force of around 100 to cover a population of around 20,000.

I have been in the portacabin HQ of a 2 man department and it looked like a bomb had been dropped in the place. Their admin was beyond shite. In a country where reading and writing are a major challenge - yes I have seen police reports here firsthand - how well do you think they do admin and what do you think they actually pass up the chain to the Feds?

The Mrs when she moved into her job at the creditcard division of a major US bank was introducing criminal background checks to a UK level of quality to exceed the requirements of the Fed. Allegedly an agency, contracted by the bank, had conducted criminal background checks on all individuals as they started their employment. The Mrs contracted another agency to run all the 7000 staff through criminal checks again these went into more detail than the initial check. They found a couple of convicted murderers and a few individuals who had committed other crimes - they had all served their time but, conviction precluded them from employment in a bank. And, those convictions had not been picked up.

I also know of a former USMC Cpl who served 4 years in a technical capacity requiring TS clearance. He had a criminal conviction for assault before he joined and would never have received his clearance if they had bothered to do the vetting. He told me they were that far back-logged he could have served 8 years before they finally got around to his vetting.

Admin. They stink at it.
 
When you fill out the form to buy a firearm the dealer makes an enquiry to State LE as to your status, they then presumably do an NICS check on you and it gets passed back as approved, or not.
The FFL doesn't make an enquiry at State level, they make the enquiry directly to the FBI NICS.

NICS then issue an NTN (transaction number) which the FFL enters on the form 4473. The only time State or local LE gets involved is when issuing a permit to purchase for a pistol and even then the FFL still does an NICS check to get the NTN.

Edit to add, I put my hands up and say you are partially correct. There are 14 States using the POC (Point of Contact System)
 
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Not true, there were 20 murders in Wyoming last year, in 2016 there were 17 murders. In London there were 116 murders and that's excluding the deaths in the Westminster, London Bridge and Finsbury Park terrorist attacks As of April 5th 2018 there has been 55 suspected murders in London.
As stated previously in the following post on this thread: https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/mass-shootings-in-the-us.244730/post-8770018
Here's the relevant bit:
The murder rate in Wyoming is several times higher than in London. The figures you posted for Wyoming for 2016 showed a murder rate of 3.4 per 100,000. The latest full year figures for London (2017) show a rate of 1.2 per 100,000.
 
As stated previously in the following post on this thread: https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/mass-shootings-in-the-us.244730/post-8770018
Here's the relevant bit:
Wyoming 2016, and don't be jumping on those firearms numbers as they were not homicides, if they were they would be in with homicides. Stats of the State of Wyoming

Wyoming 2017. Wyoming Crime Rates and Statistics - NeighborhoodScout

London. 2017. How does London's spate of killings compare with other cities?
 
Besides having a heavily armed society makes for a very polite one. Everybody knows that bad behavior will get you killed. So fewer people are willing to take those kinds of risks.
Which explains why the gangs of LA and Chicago are renowned for their impeccable etiquette.
 
Wyoming 2016, and don't be jumping on those firearms numbers as they were not homicides, if they were they would be in with homicides. Stats of the State of Wyoming

Wyoming 2017. Wyoming Crime Rates and Statistics - NeighborhoodScout

London. 2017. How does London's spate of killings compare with other cities?
For the London figures, you are citing the same BBC article as I did (see my link).

For the Wyoming figures, the rate given in your link to neighborhoodscout.com is the same as in the one I got from the US Census (see my link).

In either case I am talking about the murder rate in total, regardless of whether or not they are firearms related. The question for LJonsey was why the murder rate in the US was so high. An explanation of "it's just in the big city slums, not in Wyoming" doesn't wash, because the murder rate in Wyoming is much higher than in London.
 
That's only because Wyoming is so sparsely populated that citizens rarely come within shooting range of one another.
It's be interesting to compare the rate of interpersonal interactions to those of murders in each of Wyoming and London.

I'll wager our 'armed therefore polite' cousins are statistically more likely to end a social encounter with lethal violence.
 
You can't prevent someone using a vehicle, nor is a licence required in order to own or drive one.
Really? I was under the impression that it was a legal requirement to have a driving license while driving in the US.
 
It's be interesting to compare the rate of interpersonal interactions to those of murders in each of Wyoming and London.

I'll wager our 'armed therefore polite' cousins are statistically more likely to end a social encounter with lethal violence.
Oh please. Being armed makes one more likely to avoid conflict. Trust me.
 
In either case I am talking about the murder rate in total, regardless of whether or not they are firearms related.
Yep so was I, that's why I used the term homicide.

because the murder rate in Wyoming is much higher than in London.
If there were 20 murders in total in Wyoming last year and 116 murders in total in London last year, how do you figure that Wyoming has a far higher murder rate?

Those figures there are not just murders using a firearm but the total number of all murders.
 
Yes but people commit crime all the time, unless they are nicked by LE they will get away with it.
More accurate.

Yep so was I, that's why I used the term homicide.

If there were 20 murders in total in Wyoming last year and 116 murders in total in London last year, how do you figure that Wyoming has a far higher murder rate?
Wyoming has a much smaller population than London (0.58 million compared to 8.1 million) giving roughly 3 times the murders per capita. Yes, he should have said murder rate per capita.
 
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Yep so was I, that's why I used the term homicide.



If there were 20 murders in total in Wyoming last year and 116 murders in total in London last year, how do you figure that Wyoming has a far higher murder rate?

Those figures there are not just murders using a firearm but the total number of all murders.
I may have got the wrong end of the stick here, but isn't Terminal refering to the rate of murders, not total numbers?

IE, murders per 1,000 of population.

ETA: Whoops, beaten to it by Ortholith.
 
Yep so was I, that's why I used the term homicide.



If there were 20 murders in total in Wyoming last year and 116 murders in total in London last year, how do you figure that Wyoming has a far higher murder rate?

Those figures there are not just murders using a firearm but the total number of all murders.

The low population skews the stats, and in turn makes it look like we swat each other in droves here. When in reality you’re more likely to have a violent interaction with folks in London than here.

Wyoming Crime

Our violent crime rate is quite a bit lower than the national average.
 

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