Mass Shootings in the US

[Goutyfrub]

40

Ok you are getting older. as time moves on you and your contemporaries will begin to pass on taking your views and votes with you. Like it or not the millennial mindset and what comes after is what will make up the voters and they will have control.

You are younger than I imagined and have a ways to go, but time will keep ticking and attitudes will change. In 15 years or so you may be surprised at how different your values are to your average 25 year old.

 

[LJONESY]

I assume you're talking about firearms? What rights do you think have been lost?

Was their once upon a time you could own rifles and pistols?

 

[SOCALSapper]

Ok you are getting older. as time moves on you and your contemporaries will begin to pass on taking your views and votes with you. Like it or not the millennial mindset and what comes after is what will make up the voters and they will have control.

You are younger than I imagined and have a ways to go, but time will keep ticking and attitudes will change. In 15 years or so you may be surprised at how different your values are to your average 25 year old.

True - at 25, i would have agreed with you as I was ignorant.

 

[Ortholith]

Was their once upon a time you could own rifles and pistols?

We still can own rifles.

I was asking more as it's an interesting difference in attitude - the typical American view is owning guns is a right and no one can stop you. In the UK the typical view is that owning firearms is a privilege (for want of a better word). In the US everyone can have a gun unless they do something stupid, in the UK no one gets a gun until they can prove they can be trusted with one.

The Hungerford and Dunblane killings were committed with semi-automatic rifles and handguns respectively. There is no real need for a semi-auto rifle or handgun in the UK so they were banned (yes, there are exceptions and NI). When Derrick Bird went on his murder spree he used a bolt action rifle and a shotgun. Bolt action rifles and shotguns have not been restricted because they fulfill needs and there is no viable replacement for them.

At one point cocaine and heroin were legal to buy in the UK. The decision was taken to ban them as there is no need for people to buy them (and heroin is still available in hospitals and probably on prescription). I wouldn't argue that our rights have been infringed by that decision.

 

[Goutyfrub]

True - at 25, i would have agreed with you as I was ignorant.

Still voted for what you believed in though didn't you.

 

[mad_mick]

Well done SOCALSapper, I was going to make a point about you lack of "sense", but you beat me to the punch.

 

[mad_mick]

Anyway, we just watch and observe, what we say will make .000001% difference. Less than an NRA gun show with under 12s getting in for free.

Plus look at all those 3rd world countries that don't have schools to shoot up.

 

[Tedsson]

As I have mentioned before, you won't stop gun deaths completely. The best thing you can do is try to reduce them and prevent as much loss of life as possible. The ideal solution is to have armed personal at schools that can respond in seconds or a minute or two and confront a shooter and end the threat before the body count climbs sky high. Guns are only a tool, and honestly their are more effective ones that could be used instead think VBIED etc. As horrible as it sounds you have to be prepared to live with the fact that it is impossible to prevent every single of one of these acts from occurring. $hitheads will always find a way to kill their fellow human beings using whatever tools they have at their disposal. If you don't have guns rent a dump truck, or hijack an airliner etc. Dead is dead regardless of the cause.

Arming teachers might minimise the death count but I guess the average shooter would still get a few before the teacher responded and didn’t get shot when he/she responded. It won’t prevent some kids getting snuffed.

Arming teachers won’t do much to prevent genuine postal incidents like Edmond. Nor mass shootings in military bases like Washington Navy Yard and Fort Hood. Nor random mass shootings like Las Vegas, Orlando, Killeen or San Ysidro.

 

[Drazyl]

Well for young males, a strong father figure/role model can make a huge difference. The loss of the nuclear family is not exactly a great thing, and as much as the progressives will say it does not make a difference in children growing up it does.

Video games tend to warp a kid's perception of reality, esp if they are never exposed to the real world. You can slot people pretty graphically for hours on end and have no concept that dead is dead. No reset button, no coming back.

Only if you are inclined not to empathise and understand the real world already. Pointing the finger at computer games is a distraction technique, one that is particularly hypocritical when it's used by those saying "there are lots of responsible gun owners" but trying to shift guilt onto games and ignore the millions of gamers who are also responsible.

 

[Drlligaf]

There is no real need for a semi-auto rifle or handgun in the UK so they were banned

Why should the UK be different from the rest of Europe (note not the EU) where the possession of handguns and semi-auto rifles is not a problem?

 

[Drlligaf]

Because you can drive to another state and make these efforts worthless....... as I said NATIONAL gun owner registry.

Socal or jonesy may care to correct me, but I believe that you have to be resident in the State concerned in order to buy a gun there. Furthermore should you buy a gun even legally and then take it to a State where it is prohibited you are risking real trouble.

National gun register? You are having a giraffe. Thanks to an EU directive Germany, where I live, has a national gun register, since 2012/3. Even from the beginning a senior German CID officer stated that it is a waste of time, furthermore I made an official request for a copy of my file, to put it simply it is a load of b*ll*cks and I'm not the only one to have found out that the records are very inaccurate. 2018 and it's a public secret that the register is useless. Still it keeps Joe public happy to know that those nasty, respectable law abiding citizens are being kept in check.

 

[Himmler74]

You do realize that the only folks out here trying to confiscate weapons would be the Feds? If that were happen the next question is do those same folks become Domestic enemies or remain Federal agents... The Gadsden flag would be flown in mass.


View attachment 327243

Yep that’s what happened at WACO wasn’t it?

Does the 2nd amendment state what type of arms are included? Or can that be reviewed and restricted by the politicians you voted for?

 

[LJONESY]

I doubt you and your buddies keep and bear arms so that you can be part of a well regulated militia. I also doubt that the main reason for you enthusiasm is the maintain a free state from some overbearing government. You own them because you like to shoot and




enjoy assembling your personal armoury. You use the amendment as justification for something you enjoy, and don't want any changes to that.

It was written for a time and a need that is no longer valid.

Bold words, but ignorance is also bliss. How old are you by chance?

Why do you place so much faith in government to do the right thing? When historically speaking it does the wrong thing with alarming regularity.

Socal or jonesy may care to correct me, but I believe that you have to be resident in the State concerned in order to buy a gun there. Furthermore should you buy a gun even legally and then take it to a State where it is prohibited you are risking real trouble.

National gun register? You are having a giraffe. Thanks to an EU directive Germany, where I live, has a national gun register, since 2012/3. Even from the beginning a senior German CID officer stated that it is a waste of time, furthermore I made an official request for a copy of my file, to put it simply it is a load of b*ll*cks and I'm not the only one to have found out that the records are very inaccurate. 2018 and it's a public secret that the register is useless. Still it keeps Joe public happy to know that those nasty, respectable law abiding citizens are being kept in check.

You can buy a long gun in another state. However a hand gun has to be shipped to a dealer in the state you reside in. So if I buy a pistol in Nebraska it has to be shipped to a gun store in Wyoming for the paperwork before I can take possession of it.

 

[LJONESY]

Yep that’s what happened at WACO wasn’t it?

Does the 2nd amendment state what type of arms are included? Or can that be reviewed and restricted by the politicians you voted for?

WACO was a cluster, and the Feds blew that op completely.

Yes the type of weapons are regulated aka machine guns etc. States can also vote to restrict what they like. It is a confusing patchwork of laws across the country.

 

[Tappet]

Why should the UK be different from the rest of Europe (note not the EU) where the possession of handguns and semi-auto rifles is not a problem?

Why do Brits binge-drink more than the French?

Different cultures: different attitudes and problems.

 

[incendiarycutlery]

Does the 2nd amendment state what type of arms are included? Or can that be reviewed and restricted by the politicians you voted for?

That’s a good point that I’ve not seen satisfactorily answered. The right to bear arms is entirely infringed across the US, but you don’t see mass disobedience like manufacture of fully automatic components and weapons. It seems at odds with the intransigence on semi-automatic weapons.

 

[Himmler74]

WACO was a cluster, and the Feds blew that op completely.

Yes the type of weapons are regulated aka machine guns etc. States can also vote to restrict what they like. It is a confusing patchwork of laws across the country.

Yet no massive armed uprising. As always the 99% will end up paying for the crimes/mistakesof the 1%.

Did the “feds” achieve there objective?

The result was possibly plan Q, right before getting a AC130 on station.

 

[Tedsson]

Only if you are inclined not to empathise and understand the real world already. Pointing the finger at computer games is a distraction technique, one that is particularly hypocritical when it's used by those saying "there are lots of responsible gun owners" but trying to shift guilt onto games and ignore the millions of gamers who are also responsible.

You could add to that.

Despite a massive increase in explicit and extreme violence (and sex) in films, games and other media over the last twenty years the crime/murder rates in western nations are generally in decline.

Any correlation between games etc and violent crime is either inverse or non-existent.

 

[Ancient_Mariner]

Arming teachers might minimise the death count but I guess the average shooter would still get a few before the teacher responded and didn’t get shot when he/she responded. It won’t prevent some kids getting snuffed.

Arming teachers won’t do much to prevent genuine postal incidents like Edmond. Nor mass shootings in military bases like Washington Navy Yard and Fort Hood. Nor random mass shootings like Las Vegas, Orlando, Killeen or San Ysidro.

Arming teachers will increase the number of shootings.

There are already problems with negligent discharges in schools by teachers who are allowed to carry guns in the classroom. Will the number of NDs increase or decrease with more guns? What about deliberate, but mistaken shootings? "I thought he had a gun!" but he didn't and now he's dead and you're going to jail. I'll give you a clue. 80% of insurance companies are refusing to provide cover at any price for schools that allow teachers to carry guns.

It takes years of training for police officers safely to deal with situations like these. Why can teachers reach the same standard in a weekend? What do people think armed teachers are going to do after a two day training course? Will walking in school with your hands in your pocket become a capital offence? Because if it doesn't then school shooters will simply hide a pistol in their coat pocket and shoot the teachers before breaking an AR-15 out of their backpack. Will carrying a backpack in school become illegal? Because if it doesn't you'll need airport style security to keep guns out of schools.

Most of all, what will parents have to say about armed teachers? Bearing in mind that the majority of Americans are not gun owners, let alone NRA members, let alone on the loony fringe of the NRA. School governing bodies are elected in America. Will parents elect governors that they perceive to be a danger to their children? I don't think so and I don't think that some half arrsed arms race between schools and armed psychopaths will be greeted with enthusiasm by anybody.

 

[LEGZ30]

Only if you are inclined not to empathise and understand the real world already. Pointing the finger at computer games is a distraction technique, one that is particularly hypocritical when it's used by those saying "there are lots of responsible gun owners" but trying to shift guilt onto games and ignore the millions of gamers who are also responsible.

The computer game link became a thing after Columbine. The two of them were gamers and one had a weird obsession with Doom. There were claims he created a mod in Doom that was the High School to practise on but I don't think any actual evidence of that was found. He definitely did say that the attack on the school 'will be just like Doom'.

The families of those that were murdered at Columbine tried to sue some game manufacturers but it didn't get very far.