Mass Shootings in the US

It didn't say 80%, but it did say this;

Which isn't true.
I think it is. In most murders, the victim knows the perp. In a number of documentaries I've seen here in the UK on police procedure, the police normally start with looking at those who the victim knew and anyone else connected.

I don't think it's any different in the US.

Snopes' article concerns a specific 80% figure for interpersonal gun deaths in 2012. But in the Scientific American article it states:

Most of the time, according to every single study that’s ever been done about interpersonal gun violence, the dead and wounded know the people who shot them
this being one of them:

NEJM - Error

The Snopes article whilst related, deals with a false mem, and doesn't negate the evidence quoted in the Scientific American. And I note you picked out just the one issue from the whole article.
 
Well if you are not familiar with the prepper movement that has become very popular these days you won't get it. It is not to hard to have a small collection when you consider the different purposes of some firearms. My goose gun is not going to shoot deer, and my deer rifle won't kill waterfowl effectively. Handguns are for self defense, and AR's are in the same category. If you are in a rural area a pistol won't reach out and touch somebody or something at 200 meters so we need that carbine. So having 10-15 weapons is not to hard for a family to amass.

Now if you are a hardcore collector with hundreds of firearms, well feel free to share with us poor folk.....

But here is also a question for our British distant relations.

Who is responsible for defending your family??
Apologies, missed this one, so ignore my point in my last post about picking up on just the one issue.

I'm familiar with the prepper movement. It's quaint and it keeps them off the streets I suppose.

As for defending my family, I'm turning 60 this year, and in my whole time on the planet here in the UK I've never felt as there was a moment where the need to defend my family ever arose. I'm betting that for the remainder of my life it will be the same.

The exception was my partner before I met her had an attempted rape on her, but she fought him off and neighbours came and, ahem, roughed him up a bit. No need for guns and the perp was arrested and sentenced.

Other contributors from this side of the pond may have different experiences.
 
I think it is. In most murders, the victim knows the perp. In a number of documentaries I've seen here in the UK on police procedure, the police normally start with looking at those who the victim knew and anyone else connected.

I don't think it's any different in the US.

Snopes' article concerns a specific 80% figure for interpersonal gun deaths in 2012. But in the Scientific American article it states:



this being one of them:

NEJM - Error

The Snopes article whilst related, deals with a false mem, and doesn't negate the evidence quoted in the Scientific American. And I note you picked out just the one issue from the whole article.
In most domestic murders that is correct. But the figures being thrown about in this thread are for all gun deaths in the US which include all sorts of things that are not normal domestic murders.

In rural areas where there is less gang related crime then most murderers are probably know by the victim. In the cities, which have much higher rates of gun homicides than rural areas the evidence is that up to 50% of the homicides are related to gang activity and they mainly don't know each other.

If you want to just talk about the effect that tightening gun laws might have on murders that are not related to gangs and crime then fine, but what you can't do and keep any credibility is to throw around the numbers for all gun homicides and then pretend one of the largest causes doesn't exist.
 
Apologies, missed this one, so ignore my point in my last post about picking up on just the one issue.

I'm familiar with the prepper movement. It's quaint and it keeps them off the streets I suppose.

As for defending my family, I'm turning 60 this year, and in my whole time on the planet here in the UK I've never felt as there was a moment where the need to defend my family ever arose. I'm betting that for the remainder of my life it will be the same.

The exception was my partner before I met her had an attempted rape on her, but she fought him off and neighbours came and, ahem, roughed him up a bit. No need for guns and the perp was arrested and sentenced.

Other contributors from this side of the pond may have different experiences.
Well then you are a very lucky person, I hope your streak continues and that you never have to worry about anything like this.

But to the American mind set.

Better to have, and not need, than to need, and not have.”

Franz Kafka

Sums it up perfectly. Most of the time you won't need to worry about having to defend yourself or your family. However that one time out of a million when some shady individual decides to try to let them self in your home, or a mass shooting occurs less than a 1/4 mile away from your house and you arrive home about 8 minutes after the fact.... Guns become a great thing.
 
I will just park this here. UK gun offences:

View attachment 327298
That’s the number of offences which includes used as a threat, used as a blunt weapon, possession and fired. All in decline.

Recent blips don’t affect the overall trend which is downwards. With very small numbers even a few offences can cause a big jump in the numbers.

I don’t recognise the UK in the description posted above.

“most gun crime can be traced to back to fewer than 1,000 illegal weapons still in circulation" and anyone looking to obtain a gun will find themselves "resorting to rebuilt antique weapons, homemade bullets and even illicit “rent-a-gun” schemes."


I don't know what statistics you are using but 2 organs of the whining left are reporting otherwise Gun crime in London rises by 42%
snip "Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.
The Met Police's figures showed there were 2,544 gun crime offences from April 2016 to April 2017 compared to 1,793 offences from 2015 until 2016.
Knife crime also increased by 24% with 12,074 recorded offences from 2016 to 2017."

and here Violent crime rising in England and Wales, police figures show
snip " England and Wales saw 'small but genuine' increases in murder and other violent crimes in 2016, including 13-14% increases in gun and knife crime"
And when you look at other sources the figure becomes even more alarming Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest
snip "Violent crime rose in virtually every corner of the country last year with some areas seeing the volume almost double in 12 months, the Daily Telegraph has found. The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.
Sex offences, robberies and assaults have also increased significantly across London in the last 12 months, but senior officers have stressed that the pattern is not unique to the capital and is being replicated across the country.
Police leaders have consistently warned the government that proposed cuts to force budgets threaten to undermine the fight against violent crime but the Government has insisted on driving through cost cutting reforms."


and here Firearms amnesty as UK gun crime rises 27% this year
snip Firearms amnesty as UK gun crime rises 27% this year. The amnesty comes less than a month after national figures revealed the number of crimes involving firearms in England and Wales increased by 27% to 6,696 in the year ending June 2017"

This is after our so politically correct Police forces admit that in some cases they are unable to cope as experienced in the Duggan riots, even after doctoring or manipulating figures to produce the pc approved statistics reported, as some on the job who post on here have said. Our pathetic Government insisting on cutting numbers of Police yet again in a time when our population has increased dramatically over the past couple of decades is frankly dangerous.
I say again our draconian firearms laws does little or nothing to stop the proliferation of weapons in CRIMINAL hands. I am sure the same thing would apply in the USA.
 
That’s bigotry that you’re feeling, I guess.

Well gee whiz, let's think about this for a few moments shall we.

For my entire adult life, we have been at war with Muslim fanatics belonging to various factions...I do remember finishing up a PT session when 9-11 occurred and watching that on the TV with all my stunned buddies in my squad. Sadly my children will inherit this war and theirs after them. Bringing it home deliberately to be politically correct is quite stupid, and akin to shooting yourself in the dick.

We also are watching the grand European experiment with the Syrian Refugees with great interest over here. Our governor decided to try to take some in, a few years ago and he was about tarred and feathered. Nobody wants the problems associated with people who have a 7th century mindset dumped into their communities. As soon as the sex assaults start the "hate" crimes would follow suit.
 
I don't know what statistics you are using but 2 organs of the whining left are reporting otherwise Gun crime in London rises by 42%
snip "Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.
The Met Police's figures showed there were 2,544 gun crime offences from April 2016 to April 2017 compared to 1,793 offences from 2015 until 2016.
Knife crime also increased by 24% with 12,074 recorded offences from 2016 to 2017."

and here Violent crime rising in England and Wales, police figures show
snip " England and Wales saw 'small but genuine' increases in murder and other violent crimes in 2016, including 13-14% increases in gun and knife crime"
And when you look at other sources the figure becomes even more alarming Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest
snip "Violent crime rose in virtually every corner of the country last year with some areas seeing the volume almost double in 12 months, the Daily Telegraph has found. The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.
Sex offences, robberies and assaults have also increased significantly across London in the last 12 months, but senior officers have stressed that the pattern is not unique to the capital and is being replicated across the country.
Police leaders have consistently warned the government that proposed cuts to force budgets threaten to undermine the fight against violent crime but the Government has insisted on driving through cost cutting reforms."


and here Firearms amnesty as UK gun crime rises 27% this year
snip Firearms amnesty as UK gun crime rises 27% this year. The amnesty comes less than a month after national figures revealed the number of crimes involving firearms in England and Wales increased by 27% to 6,696 in the year ending June 2017"

This is after our so politically correct Police forces admit that in some cases they are unable to cope as experienced in the Duggan riots, even after doctoring or manipulating figures to produce the pc approved statistics reported, as some on the job who post on here have said. Our pathetic Government insisting on cutting numbers of Police yet again in a time when our population has increased dramatically over the past couple of decades is frankly dangerous.
I say again our draconian firearms laws does little or nothing to stop the proliferation of weapons in CRIMINAL hands. I am sure the same thing would apply in the USA.
If you start with a very low figure and add 42% it's still a low figure but sounds like a big increase. If you had one shooting one year then two the next that's a 100% increase when you then compare that the figures are usually based on per 100,000 of the population it's not a significant increase in the overall population. The left wing are very good at manipulating statistics.

Gun 'Offences' include air guns or any threat of use, doesn't mean they are used. You seem to forget who is controlling these weapons. They aren't the sort of people who hold an in-depth investigation when a weapon they've sold/loaned gets picked up by plod. It usually involves a dark alley and broken bones, these are the same punishments handed out to drug dealers who cut drugs with stuff that makes users ill. In both cases, plod will be involved and that's bad for business.

If you haven't noticed our homegrown jihadis have lacked guns so far. This is probably due to the massively armed police presence when they kick off. This is not good news if you're a top crim doing say protection rackets or large-scale drug movements. I wouldn't be surprised if a few 'Jonny jihadis' have been bubbled when trying to get hold of weapons.
 
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If you start with a very low figure and add 42% it's still a low figure but sounds like a big increase. If you had one shooting one year then two the next that's a 100% increase when you then compare that the figures are usually based on per 100,000 of the population it's not a significant increase in the overall population. The left wing are very good at manipulating statistics.
The left manipulating statistics to make their points!! Never........

1521730089951.png
 
Well then you are a very lucky person, I hope your streak continues and that you never have to worry about anything like this.

But to the American mind set.

Better to have, and not need, than to need, and not have.”

Franz Kafka

Sums it up perfectly. Most of the time you won't need to worry about having to defend yourself or your family. However that one time out of a million when some shady individual decides to try to let them self in your home, or a mass shooting occurs less than a 1/4 mile away from your house and you arrive home about 8 minutes after the fact.... Guns become a great thing.
Unusual quote from Frank Zappa
 
If you start with a very low figure and add 42% it's still a low figure but sounds like a big increase. If you had one shooting one year then two the next that's a 100% increase when you then compare that the figures are usually based on per 100,000 of the population it's not a significant increase in the overall population. The left wing are very good at manipulating statistics.

Gun 'Offences' include air guns or any threat of use, doesn't mean they are used. You seem to forget who is controlling these weapons. They aren't the sort of people who hold an in-depth investigation when a weapon they've sold/loaned gets picked up by plod. It usually involves a dark alley and broken bones, these are the same punishments handed out to drug dealers who cut drugs with stuff that makes users ill. In both cases, plod will be involved and that's bad for business.

If you haven't noticed our homegrown jihadis have lacked guns so far. This is probably due to the massively armed police presence when they kick off. This is not good news if you're a top crim doing say protection rackets or large-scale drug movements. I wouldn't be surprised if a few 'Jonny jihadis' have been bubbled when trying to get hold of weapons.
My bold...FFS do you actually bother to read what is stated in the Guardians article try it again The Met Police's figures showed there were 2,544 gun crime offences from April 2016 to April 2017 compared to 1,793 offences from 2015 until 2016
So hardly one shooting going up to two giving you the 100 % you are desperately trying to push. The increase is significant and IMHO worrying. You only have to look at the other thread on this site to see what's happening in London alone this year as a result of violence... How many talented rappers, footballers or models will be stabbed in London this year? snip London's Air Ambulance now called to more stabbings and shootings than road traffic accidents.
 
Here we go, one more from the gun nuts.

View attachment 327412
I live in good old Gloucestershire, we're a small county of around 900k to 1 million. As with similar police forces in the UK, we have ARV units (only a couple or so). I've never known in 40 years them fire a single round at a human, dogs, sheep and cows have all got the 'good news' but not a human. Plod next door in Avon had a bit of action the other month when somebody was waving what looked like a handgun around, that was enough for plod to remove him from the gene pool. Though that's the first time in over 10 years they've fired a round.
So why would I need any form of firearm to protect myself, if plod can't find a use for them when looking in the worst areas of cities.
 
I live in good old Gloucestershire, we're a small county of around 900k to 1 million. As with similar police forces in the UK, we have ARV units (only a couple or so). I've never known in 40 years them fire a single round at a human, dogs, sheep and cows have all got the 'good news' but not a human. Plod next door in Avon had a bit of action the other month when somebody was waving what looked like a handgun around, that was enough for plod to remove him from the gene pool. Though that's the first time in over 10 years they've fired a round.
So why would I need any form of firearm to protect myself, if plod can't find a use for them when looking in the worst areas of cities.
Different country - different needs.
 
My bold...FFS do you actually bother to read what is stated in the Guardians article try it again The Met Police's figures showed there were 2,544 gun crime offences from April 2016 to April 2017 compared to 1,793 offences from 2015 until 2016
So hardly one shooting going up to two giving you the 100 % you are desperately trying to push. The increase is significant and IMHO worrying. You only have to look at the other thread on this site to see what's happening in London alone this year as a result of violence... How many talented rappers, footballers or models will be stabbed in London this year? snip London's Air Ambulance now called to more stabbings and shootings than road traffic accidents.
It's all kept within a certain demographic, isn't it? We rarely have mass shootings as most of it is gang or criminal related. If it was that bad we would have more police shootings, but we don't.
In the same period of your gun crimes figures (2544), there were 1.3million violent crimes, so guns account for less than 1% of that.
 
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I live in good old Gloucestershire, we're a small county of around 900k to 1 million. As with similar police forces in the UK, we have ARV units (only a couple or so). I've never known in 40 years them fire a single round at a human, dogs, sheep and cows have all got the 'good news' but not a human. Plod next door in Avon had a bit of action the other month when somebody was waving what looked like a handgun around, that was enough for plod to remove him from the gene pool. Though that's the first time in over 10 years they've fired a round.
So why would I need any form of firearm to protect myself, if plod can't find a use for them when looking in the worst areas of cities.
One day you will face the unthinkable and then you will have a come to Jesus moment that looks like this.

1521732195579.png


In all seriousness though, you live in a more docile part of the UK it appears. But that does not mean you will get to go through life conflict free. It seems like you do have an issue with violence and sexual offenses.

Detailed statistics for Gloucester City Centre, Gloucestershire Constabulary - Police.uk
 
I don't know what statistics you are using but 2 organs of the whining left are reporting otherwise Gun crime in London rises by 42%
snip "Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.
The Met Police's figures showed there were 2,544 gun crime offences from April 2016 to April 2017 compared to 1,793 offences from 2015 until 2016.
Knife crime also increased by 24% with 12,074 recorded offences from 2016 to 2017."

and here Violent crime rising in England and Wales, police figures show
snip " England and Wales saw 'small but genuine' increases in murder and other violent crimes in 2016, including 13-14% increases in gun and knife crime"
And when you look at other sources the figure becomes even more alarming Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest
snip "Violent crime rose in virtually every corner of the country last year with some areas seeing the volume almost double in 12 months, the Daily Telegraph has found. The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.
Sex offences, robberies and assaults have also increased significantly across London in the last 12 months, but senior officers have stressed that the pattern is not unique to the capital and is being replicated across the country.
Police leaders have consistently warned the government that proposed cuts to force budgets threaten to undermine the fight against violent crime but the Government has insisted on driving through cost cutting reforms."


and here Firearms amnesty as UK gun crime rises 27% this year
snip Firearms amnesty as UK gun crime rises 27% this year. The amnesty comes less than a month after national figures revealed the number of crimes involving firearms in England and Wales increased by 27% to 6,696 in the year ending June 2017"

This is after our so politically correct Police forces admit that in some cases they are unable to cope as experienced in the Duggan riots, even after doctoring or manipulating figures to produce the pc approved statistics reported, as some on the job who post on here have said. Our pathetic Government insisting on cutting numbers of Police yet again in a time when our population has increased dramatically over the past couple of decades is frankly dangerous.
I say again our draconian firearms laws does little or nothing to stop the proliferation of weapons in CRIMINAL hands. I am sure the same thing would apply in the USA.
The graph came from the British Crime Survey from the Office For National Statistics.

Ignore gun “crimes”. The numbers include all manner of things, starting with kids using air rifles to commit criminal damage through possession, dealing, using a gun as a club going up to murders.

It is the gun murders that we need to compare. The raw data for gun murders is detailed in the ONS table shown in #4636.

It’s not easy to find gun murders much beyond 2015/2016 where the gun deaths in England and Wales was 27. (Scotland might have added a few more).

This is down from the average of 57/58 shown in #4631.

As repeatedly pointed out gun deaths are pretty random events in the UK and small actual increases can be interpreted as large percentage increases so even if the death total was (say) 39 for 16/17 that’s nearly a 50% increase in gun murders. However, it’s not exactly turning the UK into South Africa.

Knife crimes are on the increase precisely because it is almost impossible for yoofs and ne’er do wells to get guns.

To add to @leveller ’s point British police fired their weapons 7 times in 2015.

It ain’t the Wild West out there.
 

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