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Mass Shootings in the US

That last one is a deeply dodgy use of statistics that has been doing the rounds for years. Even Snopes has called it out for being untrue. FACT CHECK: 80 Percent of Murders Involve Interpersonal Disputes

Especially dodgy when you consider that people studying gang violence believe that up to 48% of gun homicides are gang related.
I didn't see 80% mentioned in the article I posted, nor in the links within it unless I've missed it.

Are you assuming the research used in my linked article is using the info' referred to in Snopes?
 
@LJONESY & LEGZ30..

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated. Always try to "see both sides of the fence", so to speak..:cool:
 
There is a fairly easy answer here, hold a referendum on the validity of repealing the 2A, not electoral collegiate crap, just majority verdict.

Of course that would highlight the binary differences between states and the peoples relationship with the Federal government, and likely result in some states considering cessation rather than compliance, because the 2A question at the grand strategic level is as much about the fabric of the US as many other binary debates here.

The tactical level implications however are played out by great glee in the media and any political who wants to unite people to vote for him/her, and models the majority of views in his/her electorate.

In the absence of a repeal of 2A, who has a meaningful pragmatic and practical plan to confiscate over 400m estimated firearms in private ownership in a country of just over 350m?

To remain honest, I live in US, I have guns, but I'm open to genuine considered alternative views if they can be made without hysterics.
 
I think more people then you could imagine would vote with their trigger finger at the thought of going down the path of the Nazi’s or Communists.
I referred to this as a red herring in a previous post.

Might as well respond to it here.

Firstly the Nazis did not outlaw gun ownership. Ownership was tightly controlled after WWI as the country was awash with weapons. Germans who owned guns just retained them. The Nazis then loosened gun control in the late 1930, with the exception of Jews. So, far from taking them away the Nazis made them freely available. There is probably a thesis in why but my guess would be something along lines of the “private” flying clubs which formed the kernel of the Luftwaffe. The gun lobby argument that if Jews were armed they could resist the Holocaust is laughable.

The Soviet Union is slightly different. Russians had high gun ownership, mostly for hunting, and Lenin supported the right to bear arms in order to prevent a dictatorship (which sounds familiar). Stalin restricted them, in much the same way as he restricted virtually everything.

A counterfactual example in terms of the Nazis but slightly mixed for the Sovs then.
 
I didn't see 80% mentioned in the article I posted, nor in the links within it unless I've missed it.

Are you assuming the research used in my linked article is using the info' referred to in Snopes?
It didn't say 80%, but it did say this;

Most of the time, according to every single study that’s ever been done about interpersonal gun violence, the dead and wounded know the people who shot them.
Which isn't true.
 
I referred to this as a red herring in a previous post.

Might as well respond to it here.

Firstly the Nazis did not outlaw gun ownership. Ownership was tightly controlled after WWI as the country was awash with weapons. Germans who owned guns just retained them. The Nazis then loosened gun control in the late 1930, with the exception of Jews. So, far from taking them away the Nazis made them freely available. There is probably a thesis in why but my guess would be something along lines of the “private” flying clubs which formed the kernel of the Luftwaffe. The gun lobby argument that if Jews were armed they could resist the Holocaust is laughable.

The Soviet Union is slightly different. Russians had high gun ownership, mostly for hunting, and Lenin supported the right to bear arms in order to prevent a dictatorship (which sounds familiar). Stalin restricted them, in much the same way as he restricted virtually everything.

A counterfactual example in terms of the Nazis but slightly mixed for the Sovs then.
I don't think telling people who are worried about the consequences of the government taking away the individuals right to own firearms that the Nazis only did that to the Jews will reassure them much to be honest.
 
I wasn't trying to reassure anyone.

I was trying to correct a counter factual meme that keeps popping up despite a wealth of evidence to the contrary.
 
I don't think telling people who are worried about the consequences of the government taking away the individuals right to own firearms that the Nazis only did that to the Jews will reassure them much to be honest.

No shit, just replace Jew with Conservative White Male and if ANTIFA crowd were in charge I would be on my way to a camp......
 
There is a fairly easy answer here, hold a referendum on the validity of repealing the 2A, not electoral collegiate crap, just majority verdict.

Of course that would highlight the binary differences between states and the peoples relationship with the Federal government, and likely result in some states considering cessation rather than compliance, because the 2A question at the grand strategic level is as much about the fabric of the US as many other binary debates here.

The tactical level implications however are played out by great glee in the media and any political who wants to unite people to vote for him/her, and models the majority of views in his/her electorate.

In the absence of a repeal of 2A, who has a meaningful pragmatic and practical plan to confiscate over 400m estimated firearms in private ownership in a country of just over 350m?

To remain honest, I live in US, I have guns, but I'm open to genuine considered alternative views if they can be made without hysterics.
Nobody has a plan, not at least the people who want to confiscate firearms. It is a grand idea that grabbers cling to. But yes if we scrap the 2nd Amendment, we are going to have to bin a few others with it. So certain States would just opt out and say no more.....
 
Interesting article on why some Americans buy guns, and those Americans tend to be white and male.

Why Are White Men Stockpiling Guns?

Some take away points from it..

Well if you are not familiar with the prepper movement that has become very popular these days you won't get it. It is not to hard to have a small collection when you consider the different purposes of some firearms. My goose gun is not going to shoot deer, and my deer rifle won't kill waterfowl effectively. Handguns are for self defense, and AR's are in the same category. If you are in a rural area a pistol won't reach out and touch somebody or something at 200 meters so we need that carbine. So having 10-15 weapons is not to hard for a family to amass.

Now if you are a hardcore collector with hundreds of firearms, well feel free to share with us poor folk.....

But here is also a question for our British distant relations.

Who is responsible for defending your family??
 
Our British friends don't realize that in most of the country local LE won't even try. It is not worth dying over. Gun confiscation is a great fantasy but a messy reality..

Indeed, in the UK, knee jerk reaction to some events, Hungerford & Dunblane, (one of which at least could have been prevented had the Police done their job), has resulted in no drop in gun crime, in fact it has increased as criminals seemingly have no problem getting a variety of guns from sub machine guns to pistols & even grenades. see this Firearms: cheap, easy to get and on a street near you snip "You can get a clean [unused] 9mm automatic for £1,500, a Glock for a couple of grand and you can even make an order for a couple of MAC-10s," he said. "Or you can get a little sawn-off for £150. They're easy enough to get hold of. You'll find one in any poverty area, every estate in London, and it's even easier in Manchester, where there are areas where the police don't go."
From what little I know of the USA, via various family & friends who live there, there is also a very large pool of illegal weapons being held, mainly by criminal elements, which in any attempted abolition, would not be handed in and if the law abiding handed theirs in, I am sure there would be a huge tsunami of gun crime as criminals did their thing and just robbed at will with virtual impunity.
 
Indeed, in the UK, knee jerk reaction to some events, Hungerford & Dunblane, (one of which at least could have been prevented had the Police done their job), has resulted in no drop in gun crime, in fact it has increased as criminals seemingly have no problem getting a variety of guns from sub machine guns to pistols & even grenades. see this Firearms: cheap, easy to get and on a street near you snip "You can get a clean [unused] 9mm automatic for £1,500, a Glock for a couple of grand and you can even make an order for a couple of MAC-10s," he said. "Or you can get a little sawn-off for £150. They're easy enough to get hold of. You'll find one in any poverty area, every estate in London, and it's even easier in Manchester, where there are areas where the police don't go."
From what little I know of the USA, via various family & friends who live there, there is also a very large pool of illegal weapons being held, mainly by criminal elements, which in any attempted abolition, would not be handed in and if the law abiding handed theirs in, I am sure there would be a huge tsunami of gun crime as criminals did their thing and just robbed at will with virtual impunity.

1521643122412.png


This about sums it up.
 
Call the cops

Just so that we are all clear here, the site you linked to is a spoof site, nothing on that site is real and they make this clear on the link above.

Keeping it real is probably for the best.
My point stands - the existing gun registration, magazine confiscation programs have been massive failures so far.

Also - they havent got as far as SCOTUS as they are being challenged.
 
Indeed, in the UK, knee jerk reaction to some events, Hungerford & Dunblane, (one of which at least could have been prevented had the Police done their job), has resulted in no drop in gun crime, in fact it has increased as criminals seemingly have no problem getting a variety of guns from sub machine guns to pistols & even grenades. see this Firearms: cheap, easy to get and on a street near you snip "You can get a clean [unused] 9mm automatic for £1,500, a Glock for a couple of grand and you can even make an order for a couple of MAC-10s," he said. "Or you can get a little sawn-off for £150. They're easy enough to get hold of. You'll find one in any poverty area, every estate in London, and it's even easier in Manchester, where there are areas where the police don't go."
From what little I know of the USA, via various family & friends who live there, there is also a very large pool of illegal weapons being held, mainly by criminal elements, which in any attempted abolition, would not be handed in and if the law abiding handed theirs in, I am sure there would be a huge tsunami of gun crime as criminals did their thing and just robbed at will with virtual impunity.
I will just park this here. UK gun offences:

88FDE482-5F21-45AB-90F4-E2AE988322E2.png

That’s the number of offences which includes used as a threat, used as a blunt weapon, possession and fired. All in decline.

Recent blips don’t affect the overall trend which is downwards. With very small numbers even a few offences can cause a big jump in the numbers.

I don’t recognise the UK in the description posted above.

“most gun crime can be traced to back to fewer than 1,000 illegal weapons still in circulation" and anyone looking to obtain a gun will find themselves "resorting to rebuilt antique weapons, homemade bullets and even illicit “rent-a-gun” schemes."
 

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