Martin Borrman; not all bad?

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by theblindking, Apr 2, 2009.

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  1. I read a rather startling assertion in a book about master-spies that Martin Borrman is quite high up (top actually) of the list of suspects regarding the Russians A1 super source in Berlin during the war.

    Has anyone else come across this claim before? Apologies if this is a well known theory.
  2. Apart from the fact that the Russians were pointing their guns at the same people we were, how does spying on one's own psychopathic fascist totalitarian dictatorship for a psychopathic communist totalitarian dictatorship make him good?
  3. There was (for some is) support for this in that it was claimed the Sovies spirited him away in the last days? But, his remains have been found and Identified not far from the Bunker around the transport system? Can't see any reason to fake this find? I don't see there's any more substance than saying Himmler was suspect because he tried to negotiate with us at the end?

  4. AlienFTM

    AlienFTM LE Book Reviewer

    I heard about the remains dug up by the railway a good few years ago and drew a line under Bormann. Then recently on satellite I saw a programme in which a pathologist pointed out that the skull, positively and irrefutably identifed as Bormann's, was thickly encrusted in red clay rather than the sandy soil in the area where the body was found. Red clay which matched up nicely with the area in Paraguay where there had been numerous sightings of Bormann.

    Oh the conspiracy theories!
  5. Paraguay or Norfolk? :D

  6. ok agreed. The weighty philosophical issues surrounding "enemy of my enemy" mutually beneficial outcomes aside, I was more just looking for a snappy topic title.
    You will, I am sure, have noted the question mark included in an attempt (in vain, it would seem) to avoid any such mis-understandings. I'm not sure where the idea that he might have been "good" came from.
  7. From what I read it was a road junction and the theory was he had been shot

    The Russians did strange things anyway like bury Hitlers remains in Madgeburg until the 1980's when Andropov ordered them dug up and destroyed.
  8. Stalin also encouraged the myth of the disappearance of (some) leading Nazi's. Helped justify his increased paranoia,and repression within the newly acquired states of the 'Near abroad'.
  9. There is a book by Sefton Dlemer called Black Boomerang about the "black" propaganda war conducted by the UK and our allies against Germany in WW2. Delmer had been a reporter for the "Daily Mail" when it used to be a newspaper. His father was working in Germany before WW1 and Delmer and his family spent a number of years (including the WW1 years) living in Germany. He spoke perfekt German and could even speak the various accents and dialects. He and his "black" propaganda had the poor alt Germans not knowing if they were punched, bored or counter-sunk. There were numerous rumors that Delmer and his gang of master-spies had spent the war years in Berlin and had penetrated the higher echelons of the Third Reich, although Delmer's campaign. This was all as a ruse as we all know that Herr Hitler was really working for us.
  10. Actually Delmer worked for the 'Daily Express' and he spent most of WWII in Bedfordshire, where he was head of the black propaganda section of the Political Warfare Executive.

    Here are some links to articles about Delmer's shenanigans, written by a talented, young historian ;-)

  11. Thanks for putting me right. I was told the "Mail" by my father in law who was a great fan of Delmer the crime reporter. Anyway the "Express" used to be a newspaper as well as the "Mail". I know that Delmer spent WW2 in the UK but he was in Germany during WW1. He was (and maybe still is) a kind of myth among German as there were numerous stories of him and/or his associates organising an anti-Nazi underground and guiding allied bombers onto their targets by radio beams etc, etc. His black propaganda was so effective that many Germans to this day claim that there was a large, popular and organised German resistance movement in Germany during the war. There was of course no such thing as the brutal Nazi state had a very effective of dealing with dissenters.
    For anyone who has not read this book I can heartily recommend it although it is now out of print
  12. That is complete bollocks!

    The Daily Mail has never been a proper newspaper.

    ADOLF HITLER KILLED BY TRAVELLERS AS HOUSE PRICES FALL would have been their headline if it were today.

    I bet the Daily Express wanted to run the headline on 30/4/45 : HITLER COMMITS SUICIDE IN BUNKER-DIANA TO BE BORN IN 16 YEARS TIME
  13. I can't be bothered as I still upset by the loss of the Venerable Jade.

  14. Gustav Seigfried Eins, Soldatensender Calais etc - media services supposedly set up by and on behalf of the common soldier that use rumour, humour and current affairs to subvert authority and undermine a totalitarian regime... absolute genius.

    Incidently, who set up this site again?... :wink:


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