Marking Time

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by fartsac, Dec 5, 2005.

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  1. I have just seen an email going round the houses regarding 'Marking Time' after a rebuke/caution.

    Surely if this is as a result of a civil offence and therefore a civil conviction, this new system constitutes as a double punishment; i.e. being punished for the same crime twice :?: .

    I'm sure the legal bods in MB have looked into this (tho this doesn't give too much confidence :? ), but is this strictly legal, and will it lead to a raft of complaints/court cases?

    I hasten to add that this does not effect me in any way :!: it is just how my mind was working as I read it.

    Anyone in the know able to comment?
  2. This falls under employment law.

    It isn't a punishment in the sense of addressing whether someone is guilty or not of a crime - that fact has been determined by the legal system (civvy). In the case of a rebuke, this is the employer expressing their displeasure at your behaviour outside of work. Example:

    Soldier gets done for D&D through the civil courts, is a driver by trade and gets a years ban. The CO of the Regt is within his rights to express his displeasure at the youg lad for making himself unemployable and delivers the administrative sanction to the young chap. In civvy street, he could well have been fired.

    The administrative sanction of rebuke etc is merely to allow the military to express the fact that the bloke is a c*nt; who is now useless as a driver and all his mates are collecting his details up since he can't drive. It doesn't amount to a further punishment, but it does highlight to the system that the chap in question might not have the qualities required of a soldier/nco/officer. If he had those qualities, he wouldn't have committed a civil offence is the argument. The net effect therefore could be to delay the lad's promotion.

    So, to recap, this is the method that the employer (the MoD) uses (and has used for years; it's not new) to express their displeasure at an employees actions outside of work. The new AGAI (67) is far clearer on the effects these sanctions have and when they should be applied. It is entirely logical that anybody's employer would "take a view" on what their employees got up to outside of work. The MoD has codified its responses, and these can cause the "marking of time" you refer to, since soldiers who get convicted might not make the very best NCOs, or set the very best example to the junior soldiers.

    Rank can also be removed admistratively if it can proven that the soldier's conviction is serious enough to warrant it; another example - AGC Accountant is done in civvy street for defrauding an insurance company, the MoD is within its rights to remove the rank and resultant responsbility that goes with it from the AGC accountant. This isn't a punishment, it's part and parcel of the effect of the civil conviction on the employability of the soldier. Civilian equivalent could be an accounts manger being demoted to become say, the cleaner in civvy street if he'd committed a similar offence to the AGC chap.

    Hope that helps!
  3. Thanks GM.
    The effect on an officer is/could be worse (?).
    If he/she loses seniority, over a full career that is a sizeable sum - but as you say "this is the employer expressing their displeasure at your behaviour outside of work".
  4. Very much so.
    Given the way that officers are currently promoted to Maj, which is time or age based, the holding up of a career by even a year or two could have a huge impact.

    But then Officers are supposed to be the pinacle of moral perfection, do no wrong etc - but at the end of the day, they're human too, and just as likely to fall foul of the system.
  5. The mark time effect is in relation to the sanctions that can be awarded:

    Rebuke - 1 year mark time;
    Displeasure - 2 years;
    Severe Displeasure - 3 years.

    There is the issue of the 32 year anomaly under the Jan 05 AGAI 67:

    1.If a 32 year old captain and a 32 year old major commit the same 'mistake' that fails the service test on the same day and are dealt with identically the following can happen if they are given an 'Expression of Severe Displeasure' = a mark time of 3 years. To the capt that will be a career ender as he will leave the promotion zone before the mark time is over, however the major will not even enter the promotion zone by the time the mark time is over so it wil have 'no effect' on his career.

    2.Under the new version of AGAI 67 (date indeterminate but already in force) the mark time for the major will be delayed until he enters the zone for promotion.

    Just thought that might help with your opinion forming...

    Under JPA It won't be possible to mark time/adjuct seniority in terms of pay, so I don't know how that will work, if it will at all.