Marines get frostbite

#2
Egg - poor drills and poor people.
 
#4
AAA - sort your apostrophes out.
 
#5
Still, it is a lot of people to be injured on Ex.

Bottom line is Mr Hoon is in charge, whether he takes the responsibilty for it or not. I sometimes find it hard to believe that he is a member of the Labour Party! Party of the workers? B*llocks. All the talking about workers' rights, safety at work etc and the Trade Unions flooding them with members funds, yet when they ARE in charge, they behave like a 19th century Pit owner.

Can you imagine if a private company did this? The Government and Unions would be screaming for charges to be laid.
 
V

vespa

Guest
#6
Eggbanjo said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3510639.stm

Anyone who has done artic training knows the warnings signs prior to actual frostbite.
when your balls start to sound like Newton balls banging each other then you get the message !
 
#7
I can't square this one, you get issued ARTIC kit for use in ARTIC conditions...........so how can they have been the wrong sleeping bags for fcuks sake. They would have had several kit checks before going so someone would have spotted whether they had the right doss bags.

In your AW training you are taught about frostnip which is the pre-cursor to frostbite, you buddy-buddy check each other all the time.........ears, nose, fingertips......any exposed skin basically. Your also taught how to treat frostnip, so as to prevent it from developing into frostbite.

OK it appears that the booties hadn't been out to Norway for a while but there would be enough AWT people in the unit to cope........the turnover of men is not that great surely :?
 
#8
I cannot understand how this could happen.
As soon as you feel like you could be getting frostnip, you stop what your doing. even if its a ski march pulling a SP pulk and warm the effected area.
As for the kit well it has not changed that much and most guys i knew did not complain to much about kit...unless you had size 11 feet and was issued the crap ski march boots that looked more like cook boots. oh and the dredded planks. :x
The arctic is a very hostile environment if your admin is in sh*t state routine piss poor you will suffer.
 

X-Inf

War Hero
Book Reviewer
#9
It is a long time since I took part on the AWT, early 70s, but the comments above should still be in place. However, the several years I did it I remember the weather in Jan/Feb as being quite dry and very cold leading to dry snow conditions. If the conditions had turned wet the clothing often is not a great help as it is designed to keep out cold rather than wet. Working in wet arctic conditions is completely different from dry so that may be part of the reason. I think we should wait for some feedback from the troops before taking the media line, although we know they never embellish a story :wink:

As for the ski injuries, I don't think there was a day went by without one. I remember on one particular advance to contact, the CSM who was thoroughly disliked by all and sundry, disappeared into a snow hole. Although uninjured he was shouting his head off for help. The problem was that the whole company, including the OC were rolling about helpless with laughter :lol: Got him out after about 10 minutes and continued the advance but the sniggers coming down the line were a delight to hear.
 
#10
AWT is obviously something thats new to the marines, otherwise they would have been well prepared. But then again, who would have expected it to be cold in Norway at this time of year? :oops:
 
#12
A Marine who develops frost bite, is sent home immediatley. It is by no means (in a majority of cases) , a personal admin failiure. It is a safety precaution. If it kicked off on the northern flank, nobody can really believe that a man with slight frost nip would be sent home!
There are also many other factors about WD04, which have to be investigated.
 
#13
TURP said:
AWT is obviously something thats new to the marines, otherwise they would have been well prepared. But then again, who would have expected it to be cold in Norway at this time of year? :oops:
The Royal Marines are Britains only Mountain & Arctic warfare troops. No other unit could cope on a unit level
 
#14
For the moment. The Army are developing the capability in 52 Inf Bde in Scotland. I think this is due to a combination of factors not least though lack of practice and familiarity with the environment. When was the last time the Corps trained on this scale in the Arctic? Before my time I think.
 
#15
BootneckBlitzkrieg said:
TURP said:
AWT is obviously something thats new to the marines, otherwise they would have been well prepared. But then again, who would have expected it to be cold in Norway at this time of year? :oops:
The Royal Marines are Britains only Mountain & Arctic warfare troops. No other unit could cope on a unit level
for a moment there Bootneck, i thought you were taking my post seriously, but then i thought, no-ones that stupid.
 
#16
Bootneck, your posts admitting to war crimes have been deleted. Strange that, whats the old saying?
Engage brain before speaking (or something like that)
 
#18
Ex-Inf

Obviously wasn't out there with the booties, but was out there on ex for a few weeks during the same period. Unfortunately for these guys it did pi$$ it down with freezing rain for a while, which was crappy enough even if you weren't living in snow holes across the countryside. Don't know what it's like now, but the report did coincide with the period I was out there.
 
#19
BootneckBlitzkrieg said:
I Was'nt , my mate who is an ML1 asked me to write in... :lol:
still back to the thread, booties, named after babies shoes. :lol:
 
#20
As an aside to this thread:

Went to Northern Norway in the chilly season on a war canoe. The Supply Officer ordered cold weather kit well in advance, only to be told by the temperate climate residing, desk bound supply chain magpies. "Not entitled, Royal Marines only."

We didn't have a detachment of Marines on board and the SO's pleas to common sense/humanity/logic/avoid a lawsuit arrse covering instincts; fell on deaf ears. Stores are for storing.

We ended up with some bits and bobs that were sent in error ( SO got a signal asking for their return but gave it a good ignoring to). There was enough for boats crews, gangway sentries for those chilly nights alongside, but everyone else kitted themselves out at their own expense. This was the mid 90s.

I have just read "Convoy! Drama in Arctic Waters" by Paul Kemp. On the plate opposite page 65 there is a picture of the Captain and bridge team of Tirpitz, on the open bridge. The caption reads as follows:

Note the splendid clothing supplied by Kriegsmarine personnel, in contrast to the inadequate attire worn by officers and men of the Royal Navy shown throughout this book.

No change there then.
 

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