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Marauder Webbing

Mav

Old-Salt
#1
A new review has been created: Marauder Webbing

First - the caveats: I'm only using this as a CFAV, my boss gave/issued me this webbing, my last experience with webbing was near 20yrs ago, and I'm a self confessed gear whore!

So, on to the webbing. This the Marauder SAS/Para MTP Webbing available from Britkit for £94.95 I've no idea what makes it SAS/PAra... that's their label.

It's configuration is pre-fitted pouches to a padded belt, with a roll-pin buckle. Available in 2 sizes (below 32", and above 32"), the smaller size has 2 double ammo pouches (each comfortably taking 3 mags) closed with Velcro and a press stud, 3 water bottle pouches with velcro and a QR buckle, 2 small utility pouches on the side of the front two mag pouches, plus an FFD pouch. Build quality seems really quite good but I've not used it that long so we'll have to see...

The good stuff:
It's very light - surprisingly so. The weight of webbing is easily overlooked as it's rarely empty but when you get/make up a new set consider how much of your final weight will be the webbing itself.
It's really quite comfy - I tend to go without the harness/yoke and the padded belt was very comfy on the hips without need for any further padding. The material is similar to that on the current Predator pack
Pouch size - the water bottle pouches are plenty big enough to allow you to get a little extra in, like a meal around your jetboil or water bottle.
The small utility pouches - they're just the right size for small torch and a leatherman which helps keep them to hand. Although let down by the way the ammo pouch lid obscures them.

The not so good stuff:
Overall capacity - because the pouches are stitched on, they're not that close together meaning that with a waist size of 32" you can only have 3 water bottle pouches. In the pic you can see that they still have room to allow the belt to open flat. On my old '58 water bottle pouch set up, there was no way it was laying flat. But maybe you don't need more than 3 pouches or you're fat and can have 4 pouches ;-)

FFD pouch - no good for the current dressing
Belt - it's two piece, stitched to the padding (rather than one piece all the way through the padding), meaning that the padding is taking the load, not the belt. You can see on my set that it's already deforming after only a few days use... doesn't look good for the long run. And as the pad is slightly stretchy, it also makes it harder to get a secure fit.
Pad length - it could be I'm just a skinny runt, but the pad definitely comes around to the front, particularly the side with the FFD pouch. It feels like it could start to rub to the top of your thighs on longer tabs. I feel like even if I was 36" waist, I would still go with the smaller size to help with this.

Overall, I give it 3 out of 5 stars - some nice ideas that are just not quite thought through enough. For me, as someone who prefers not wearing the yoke - the belt issue has me thinking I might buy my own.

Happy to post more pics and to try to answer questions for anyone who's considering buying it.
Read the full review here...
 
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#3
Think webbing is starting to become more of a thing of the past. Very much doubt there will be many deployments where we wouldn't be wearing armour. A Molle belt where you can alter your pouches makes more sense. Nothing wrong with your review though.
 

Mav

Old-Salt
#4
Think webbing is starting to become more of a thing of the past. Very much doubt there will be many deployments where we wouldn't be wearing armour. A Molle belt where you can alter your pouches makes more sense. Nothing wrong with your review though.
Thanks Wally - that's a good perspective.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#5
I've had a 'hippo pad' since the mid-80's and can remember the joys of pouch burns from 58. Whilst I note what you say about lightness there are a couple of things that would put me off a made uop belt kit and I wonder if you could comment on them.

Firstly I always thought that the solution to the pouch burn was the ability for the pouch to rub on the pad rather than on you like a sock liner. I'd be concerned that the pad would end up rubbing you away.

Secondly for those of us who are not flat I'd be concerned that the pad might not flex enough to be tight enough on the waist and on the thighs.

Lastly the issue already mentioned of a lack of flexibility.
 

Mav

Old-Salt
#6
Good questions BA...

As to the pouch/pad rubbing - I've only got 15 or so miles on my set and have had no issues so far... In terms of how it's supposed to work, I think it's to stop the hard edges of things in your pouches, like mags, and also to help with the fact that pouches move around creating increased chafing. To that extent, I think this pre-made up webbing does the same job as using a hippo pad.

To your second question - this is a key concern for me too. As the padding is the belt, it takes the load. My set still has some give in it so I found myself having to tighten fairly regularly - not something I remember on my old kit that also used a roll pin buckle. It's possible that it's just new and has some give in it still... If were someone who was gonna use a four pouch unit, loaded with 2 water bottles, and regularly carried a full complement of mags, I'm not sure I would be confident that the belt would secure the webbing. Being a skinny CFAV, I only have the three pouches and will likely never need to carry 12 mags!

Finally: flexibility - I've thought about this too... but in all honesty, if you've got your set up just right, how likely are you to change it? And from memory, once I got my old kit set up how I wanted it, I made damn sure it wasn't coming undone... which also made it a bugger to change it! So in terms of flexibility, if you know what you want your set up to be and this matches, then I would say no loss...

Hope that makes sense!
 
#7
I'm glad I've got a complete OG set of 95 with a privately purchased hippo pad to wear when we go PCS is September (Yes, I'm a CFAV)

I'll buy a PALS belt & yoke and individual pouches gradually before I switch.
 
#8
Mav - excellent review - thank you for taking the time to write such a comprehensive and practical assessment. Anyone who has carried/run with gear knows how important it is to get this right - to be fair, I don't do a great deal of that anymore (well, at all really) but having suffered enough in the past I am still drawn to read about good quality gear! As I said, a very thorough and informative article, with detailed pics - thanks. Personally, I still have 2 sets of 95 made up in the garage - one for speed and one for load - and although they are useless with CBA they do offer flexibility of configuration. ATB
 
#9
Its a good review. I was never sure about stiched webbing, im a skinny git like you and when i first joined i had issues carrying everything. I just learnt to carry less shit around with me.

As for the new stuff, flexabilty may well be the way forward. You might be carrying a minimi tomorow, with molle webbing you can just whip off the ammo pouchs and put on a link pouch. Just one example but im sure there are others.

I got me some multi-cam molle webbing for when we get shiney new kit. I thought about stiched webbing, although you like yours you have convinced me i did the right thing.
 

Mav

Old-Salt
#10
Mav - excellent review - thank you for taking the time to write such a comprehensive and practical assessment. Anyone who has carried/run with gear knows how important it is to get this right - to be fair, I don't do a great deal of that anymore (well, at all really) but having suffered enough in the past I am still drawn to read about good quality gear! As I said, a very thorough and informative article, with detailed pics - thanks. Personally, I still have 2 sets of 95 made up in the garage - one for speed and one for load - and although they are useless with CBA they do offer flexibility of configuration. ATB
Thanks for the feedback - cheers
 

Mav

Old-Salt
#11
Its a good review. I was never sure about stiched webbing, im a skinny git like you and when i first joined i had issues carrying everything. I just learnt to carry less shit around with me.

As for the new stuff, flexabilty may well be the way forward. You might be carrying a minimi tomorow, with molle webbing you can just whip off the ammo pouchs and put on a link pouch. Just one example but im sure there are others.

I got me some multi-cam molle webbing for when we get shiney new kit. I thought about stiched webbing, although you like yours you have convinced me i did the right thing.
Always good to hear from somebody else skinny who's had to learn the same lessons!

If I was paying and had to go choose a set, I could see how molle could be a better choice. However, not because I may be carrying a minimi tomorrow, just in terms of setting it up how I want. Although I can imagine some expensive trial and error going on!

Thanks for the feedback
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#12
I am now fatter than a RA Bdr and not getting any slimmer but thankfully padding seems to be acceptable nowadays!
 

Travelgall

LE
Kit Reviewer
#13
Molle webbing is the way forward. Switch out loads for the role required in the comfort of your FOB before going on the ground. Stitched webbing is fine if you're doing a CFT, but for little else. It doesn't even have the flexibility of PLCE attachments which are a 1970's answer to load carrying. It still inexplicably issued because the MoD thinks squaddies are too fecking stupid to work out what they do and do not need to carry. Yet as soon as they land in Afghanistan they suddenly gain the knowledge necessary to use MOLLE.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#14
Molle webbing is the way forward. Switch out loads for the role required in the comfort of your FOB before going on the ground.
Did you change role often on your tours ?

Stitched webbing is fine if you're doing a CFT, but for little else.
Are you on drugs ?

It doesn't even have the flexibility of PLCE attachments which are a 1970's answer to load carrying.
Ever wondered why the pouches are stitched in place ?

It still inexplicably issued because the MoD thinks squaddies are too fecking stupid to work out what they do and do not need to carry.
What's "inexplicably still issued," MOLLE, stitched webbing or PLCE ?
Have you met any of the NCOs who do the MoD's bidding ?
Is there the remotest form of structure in your posts ?

Yet as soon as they land in Afghanistan they suddenly gain the knowledge necessary to use MOLLE.
So you received no Osprey pouches prior to landing in theatre ?
 
R

really?_fascinating

Guest
#15
I've always found that when arriving in a location it is best practice for everyone to throw all their pouches in a pile and then do a lucky dip prior to the next task. This keeps things interesting and makes for some highly amusing anecdotes when, all of a sudden, the team medic is called forwards and finds his pouches full of dog biscuits. Meanwhile the ato is forced to try and neutralise a device using the contents of the padre's kit and is reduced to offering the bomb a Werther's and a chat about the football.
 

Travelgall

LE
Kit Reviewer
#16
Did you change role often on your tours ?


Are you on drugs ?


Ever wondered why the pouches are stitched in place ?


What's "inexplicably still issued," MOLLE, stitched webbing or PLCE ?
Have you met any of the NCOs who do the MoD's bidding ?
Is there the remotest form of structure in your posts ?


So you received no Osprey pouches prior to landing in theatre ?
1) Personally no. But others in my unit did up to 3 very different roles in a 6 month stint. I have however gone from dismounted to vehicle and back again quite a lot in my previous unit which required me to switch out loads, and suspect that I will again. I also switched from Assault Rifle to other weapon systems. Molle gives you the flexibility to add a 200 rd pouch for link for example.

2) No. The Army has something called CDT

3) To reflect the fact that PLCE doesn't have the flexibility of MOLLE so why not just stitch them on so they can't ever fall off. To me however that is even worse than the PLCE system. At least PLCE has a limited ability to move stuff around - eg getting rid or adding something like an ETH pouch depending on the job. Stitched webbing can't even do that. Nor can you do anything about it immediately if it tears - no CQMS replacement, no shifting around the pouches a bit so the slots go in a different hole. You also need pre-cognative abilities on what your belt kit will need to carry for the rest of your military career. And as such I think it a complete waste of money.

4) "Inexplicably still issued" meaning that I believe that PLCE is a 1980's solution to a 1970's problem with a British Army backed up with 1960's Logistics train. I.e. You now have a wide variety of jobs and equipment and a bog standard Pouch Utility, Pouch Water Bottle, 2 Magazine Pouches and an ETH pouch don't cut it any more.

Furthermore "Inexplicably still issued" because Osprey isn't compatible with PLCE. Osprey and other CBA's aren't going away, therefore why not stick with MOLLE until something better comes along.

Have I met any of the NCO's who do the MOD's bidding. Frequently yes. I regularly get moaned at by certain higher up SNCO's about my non issue kit. The fact that PLCE isn't any good doesn't mean that there are certain **** people with more rank than I who don't champion the wearing of it both in the UK and overseas.

"Is there any form of structure to your posts". Well define structure. I'm on a specific review post on an Army website. I erroneously assumed that all the people reading the comments would have some kind of background knowledge on Issue and Non Issue kit. And therefore didn't structure my answer in baby language spelling every little thing out to cater for the low watt bulbs. I have since corrected this mistake although please feel free to ask if some of the longer words still confuse.

5) Issued no Osprey prior to landing in theatre. You've missed this point as well. When the British army switched to MTP they had an ideal opportunity to issue the pouches in MOLLE. They did not do this because it has been argued that soldiers overload themselves if given Molle pouches. They therefore stuck to the old fashioned PLCE. However in Theater Troops are issued MOLLE because it works with Osprey i.e. They are trusted to make their own decisions. If they were not trusted then Osprey would simply be fitted with an inflexible stitched on system. Yet the minute they return to the UK and hand in their Osprey they return to being too thick to work out what to carry again. The soldier is supposed to return to PLCE in the UK otherwise they would issue a MOLLE belt that he could attach his MOLLE pouches issued in theater to.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#18
1) Personally no. But others in my unit did up to 3 very different roles in a 6 month stint. I have however gone from dismounted to vehicle and back again quite a lot in my previous unit which required me to switch out loads, and suspect that I will again. I also switched from Assault Rifle to other weapon systems. Molle gives you the flexibility to add a 200 rd pouch for link for example.

2) No. The Army has something called CDT

3) To reflect the fact that PLCE doesn't have the flexibility of MOLLE so why not just stitch them on so they can't ever fall off. To me however that is even worse than the PLCE system. At least PLCE has a limited ability to move stuff around - eg getting rid or adding something like an ETH pouch depending on the job. Stitched webbing can't even do that. Nor can you do anything about it immediately if it tears - no CQMS replacement, no shifting around the pouches a bit so the slots go in a different hole. You also need pre-cognative abilities on what your belt kit will need to carry for the rest of your military career. And as such I think it a complete waste of money.

4) "Inexplicably still issued" meaning that I believe that PLCE is a 1980's solution to a 1970's problem with a British Army backed up with 1960's Logistics train. I.e. You now have a wide variety of jobs and equipment and a bog standard Pouch Utility, Pouch Water Bottle, 2 Magazine Pouches and an ETH pouch don't cut it any more.

Furthermore "Inexplicably still issued" because Osprey isn't compatible with PLCE. Osprey and other CBA's aren't going away, therefore why not stick with MOLLE until something better comes along.

Have I met any of the NCO's who do the MOD's bidding. Frequently yes. I regularly get moaned at by certain higher up SNCO's about my non issue kit. The fact that PLCE isn't any good doesn't mean that there are certain **** people with more rank than I who don't champion the wearing of it both in the UK and overseas.

"Is there any form of structure to your posts". Well define structure. I'm on a specific review post on an Army website. I erroneously assumed that all the people reading the comments would have some kind of background knowledge on Issue and Non Issue kit. And therefore didn't structure my answer in baby language spelling every little thing out to cater for the low watt bulbs. I have since corrected this mistake although please feel free to ask if some of the longer words still confuse.

5) Issued no Osprey prior to landing in theatre. You've missed this point as well. When the British army switched to MTP they had an ideal opportunity to issue the pouches in MOLLE. They did not do this because it has been argued that soldiers overload themselves if given Molle pouches. They therefore stuck to the old fashioned PLCE. However in Theater Troops are issued MOLLE because it works with Osprey i.e. They are trusted to make their own decisions. If they were not trusted then Osprey would simply be fitted with an inflexible stitched on system. Yet the minute they return to the UK and hand in their Osprey they return to being too thick to work out what to carry again. The soldier is supposed to return to PLCE in the UK otherwise they would issue a MOLLE belt that he could attach his MOLLE pouches issued in theater to.
Ok, I guess you must be in a very Special unit. The Osprey I had prior to deploying in order to train with it was MOLLE pattern, as were all those I saw in theatre.
There again my deployment wasn't to Gallifrey with the 22nd Imperial Space Cadets.
 

Travelgall

LE
Kit Reviewer
#19
Ok, I guess you must be in a very Special unit. The Osprey I had prior to deploying in order to train with it was MOLLE pattern, as were all those I saw in theatre.
There again my deployment wasn't to Gallifrey with the 22nd Imperial Space Cadets.
Ignoring the second part because I'm not a 5 year old. I'll try and explain it one more time. I know that Osprey is fitted with Molle for Theatre hence the "However in Theater Troops are issued Molle because it works with Osprey i.e. They are trusted to make their own decisions". I wasn't aware there is a Molle belt in the black bag now but that is irrelevant to this discussion. I am pointing out that MTP MOLLE is not official issue in the UK, PLCE is. I am also pointing out that PLCE could have been replaced with MOLLE on the switch over to MTP but wasn't for the reason I mentioned - that those in charge of the procurement decision believed that soldiers would overload their kit if issued with MOLLE, which is why they went with an antiquated load carrying system.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#20
Do you really believe the grown ups hang onto PLCE because we arent to be trusted or could it be that as Osprey isnt general Issue and is Theatre specific it isnt absoluttely necessary yet to issue everyone Molle and as it happens by the time PLCE will need replacing (not long in its life now and I was involved in its trials twice in the 1980's) just about the whole of the much reduced army will have enough Molle to keep 101st Airsoft brigade supplied as well as our much reduced armed forces.
I would expect that the plan to remove PLCE from the system will come when enough molle is in circulation to ensure the training units get it and also that the army is fully used to using molle. It could be that as there is no massive need for matching load carrying kit (colour wise) then there is no real plan to phase in PLCE in MTP! Otherwise watch the news from gearspotter etc.
 
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