Manufacturing in the UK

Yokel

LE
I could teach you the centre lathe. I was a skilled centre Lethe turner for Newalls in my earlier life turning out parts for their range of jig borers, laps, cylindrical grinders etc. Take about a year it’s a lost art nowadays.

Yet I see job adverts for CNC machinists and the like pretty much all the time.

I am sure I saw predictions about the economic impact of COVID-19 on the BBC News last night. The UK will be hit harder than many because of the high proportion of employment and GDP provided by the service sector as opposed to manufacturing.

However, some services are technical and are very much exports - such as Marshall upgrading the avionics for Austria C-130s.

With less new aircraft/ships/etc being ordered post COVID-19, could Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul become a growth area? Upgrades and conversions, that sort of thing?
 

Nornironman

Old-Salt
Yet I see job adverts for CNC machinists and the like pretty much all the time.

I am sure I saw predictions about the economic impact of COVID-19 on the BBC News last night. The UK will be hit harder than many because of the high proportion of employment and GDP provided by the service sector as opposed to manufacturing.

However, some services are technical and are very much exports - such as Marshall upgrading the avionics for Austria C-130s.

With less new aircraft/ships/etc being ordered post COVID-19, could Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul become a growth area? Upgrades and conversions, that sort of thing?
Mazac / Fanuc trained setter operators command a decent wage. Since Brexit more so. This may decrease in Midlands now Rolls Royce have announced lay offs as they paid top dollar (some guys topping £40k a year with shift)
 

Yokel

LE
Just a small news story to prove we can export:

WFEL RECEIVES ANOTHER US DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE CONTRACT

This contract allows 20 more DSBs to be enhanced, increasing gap-crossing capabilities from 40 metres to 46 metres. The deal follows on from a previous US Army contract for the upgrading of 60 Dry Support Bridges.

The U.S Army holds around 120 Dry Support Bridges in inventory and this upgrade package - developed with US Army Tank Automotive Command Centre (TACOM) - allows its original 40-metre DSBs to achieve the new standard capability.

Since 2013, all WFEL Dry Support Bridges supplied have been 46 metre variants.Already adopted by Australia, Switzerland and Turkey, this military bridging solution has recently been evaluated under an Assessment Phase contract as a replacement for the UK MoD’s ageing BR90 bridging systems.

WFEL also produced the ski jump at NAS Pax River for trials work.
 

Yokel

LE
I saw an interview with Lord Browne (former Chief Executive of BP) in which he noted the decline of manufacturing in the UK in favour of services will impede our economic recovery from COVID-19.

On a positive note, I saw a MOD thread about a contract being awarded to an Oxfordshire based company for boat engines. That company is EP Barrus.

How many people have heard of this company? Yet it is exactly the type we need, and does what many have said could not be done in Britain. One again, I wonder how much of the decline of manufacturing has been down to a self fulfilling prophecy and lack of political faith?
 
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endure

GCM
I saw an interview with Lord Browne (former Chief Executive of BP) in which he noted the decline of manufacturing in the UK in favour of services will impede our economic recovery from COVID-19.

On a positive note, I saw a MOD thread about a contract being awarded to an Oxfordshire based company for boat engines. That company is EP Barrus.

How many people have heard of this company? Yet it is exactly the type we need, and does what many have said could not be done in Britain. One again, I wonder how much of the decline of manufacturing has been down to a self fulfilling prophecy and lack of political faith?
BP? Snort!

Its not British, and since the 70’s has in invariably bought overseas.
 

Yokel

LE
BP? Snort!

Its not British, and since the 70’s has in invariably bought overseas.
Does that matter? Does it make Lord Browne's comments any less accurate? Surely BP has refineries and other plants in Britain which do count as manufacturing?

I assume that you are referring to oil tankers being built in foreign yards? However I assume there are a lot of things they use that are UK designed and manufactured?
 

Yokel

LE
This thread, and similar ones, was partly my response to the idea than Britain can no longer design and manufacture things, and that we do not need to. The COVID-19 crisis shows the error of that type of thinking.

Industry has risen to the challenge to produce ventilators over the last few months.

UK ventilator consortium delivers 13,437 ventilators to the NHS

Formed on the 19th of March in response to the anticipated escalation in COVID19 cases, the Consortium has worked to deliver critical Penlon ESO 2 and Smiths paraPAC plus ventilators to the NHS throughout the crisis.

In that time, the consortium say they:

  • Scaled-up the Penlon ESO2 Emergency Ventilator device which modified proven clinical equipment, and the Smiths paraPAC Plus. Both met clinicians’ requirements as understanding of the virus progressed
  • Established, from scratch, seven new large-scale manufacturing facilities at Airbus AMRC Cymru in Broughton, Ford in Dagenham, GKN Aerospace in Luton and Cowes, McLaren in Woking, Rolls-Royce in Filton and STI in Hook, as well as restructuring existing sites Smiths Medical in Luton and Penlon in Abingdon.
  • Ventilator peak production exceeded 400 devices a day, with the shortest time taken to achieve 1000 ventilators being 3 days
  • Set- up new parallel supply chains and acquired around 42 million parts and electronic components through a complex logistics network that saw DHL design and implement an end-to-end supply chain in only 1.5 weeks
  • Despite global competition for parts and lockdown challenges during the pandemic the team sourced part from over 22 countries, with the furthest distance travelled by a single part being 5,226 miles
  • Achieved full MHRA approval for the Penlon ESO 2 device in just three weeks, becoming the first newly adapted ventilator design to be given regulatory authorisation as part of the UK Government’s fight against COVID19 and then going on the secure the international quality seal of approval by way of CE marking
  • Recruited and trained a 3,500 front-line assembly team in a new age of social distancing, balancing the twin imperatives of speedy delivery with absolute adherence to the regulatory standards needed to ensure patient safety
In other words we have the capability - we can build and make high specification equipment.
 
This thread, and similar ones, was partly my response to the idea than Britain can no longer design and manufacture things, and that we do not need to. The COVID-19 crisis shows the error of that type of thinking.

Industry has risen to the challenge to produce ventilators over the last few months.

UK ventilator consortium delivers 13,437 ventilators to the NHS

Formed on the 19th of March in response to the anticipated escalation in COVID19 cases, the Consortium has worked to deliver critical Penlon ESO 2 and Smiths paraPAC plus ventilators to the NHS throughout the crisis.

In that time, the consortium say they:

  • Scaled-up the Penlon ESO2 Emergency Ventilator device which modified proven clinical equipment, and the Smiths paraPAC Plus. Both met clinicians’ requirements as understanding of the virus progressed
  • Established, from scratch, seven new large-scale manufacturing facilities at Airbus AMRC Cymru in Broughton, Ford in Dagenham, GKN Aerospace in Luton and Cowes, McLaren in Woking, Rolls-Royce in Filton and STI in Hook, as well as restructuring existing sites Smiths Medical in Luton and Penlon in Abingdon.
  • Ventilator peak production exceeded 400 devices a day, with the shortest time taken to achieve 1000 ventilators being 3 days
  • Set- up new parallel supply chains and acquired around 42 million parts and electronic components through a complex logistics network that saw DHL design and implement an end-to-end supply chain in only 1.5 weeks
  • Despite global competition for parts and lockdown challenges during the pandemic the team sourced part from over 22 countries, with the furthest distance travelled by a single part being 5,226 miles
  • Achieved full MHRA approval for the Penlon ESO 2 device in just three weeks, becoming the first newly adapted ventilator design to be given regulatory authorisation as part of the UK Government’s fight against COVID19 and then going on the secure the international quality seal of approval by way of CE marking
  • Recruited and trained a 3,500 front-line assembly team in a new age of social distancing, balancing the twin imperatives of speedy delivery with absolute adherence to the regulatory standards needed to ensure patient safety
In other words we have the capability - we can build and make high specification equipment.
We (Penlon) heard the government announce their plan to get JCB, Rolls Royce, Dyson etc to make rapidly manufactured ventilators. Along with the other UK medical ventilator manufacturers we were somewhat perplexed that we not included in the government plan! Making a ventilator is one thing, getting approval for human use is another thing entirely. Fortunately Penlon has 76 years of experience in ventilator design but we still had to phone the Cabinet office & ask if we could help.

The Penlon company was started in the first place in similar circumstances, in WW2 there was an order from the Ministry of Supplies. Designed in 1943, the E.S.O was for use by parachute troops. The M.O.S. required an accurate robust but lightweight chloroform vaporizer ventilator. the ESO was Dropped by parachute with allied Airborne Forces in 1944. This was the first product of the company later to become Penlon Ltd. These were used primarily by the Parachute Field Ambulances & Air Landing Field Ambulances of the British Airborne Division.

During the Vietnam war in C1967 the British Government approached Penlon again, this time to supply anaesthesia equipment civilian hospitals in South Vietnam.

The ventilator made by Penlon for the Coronavirus pandemic was called the ESO 2 after E.S.O. in WW2. Within just 3 days of receiving the emergency ventilator specification from the Cabinet office we were able to demonstrate a fully working prototype of the ESO2, I don't think they were expecting that! You can see why Penlon was so far ahead of the non-medical companies in the race.

We would normally make 800 to 1000 ventilators per year, we made about 11.500 in 12 weeks with the big assistance of large industry to ramp up to (at the peak) 1000 units in 3 days (as mentioned above). It couldn't have been done without Ford UK, Siemens, STI, Airbus, Mclaren F1, Williams F1 & many others.

Due to being involved I am biased of course but I still think this was a proud moment for manufacturing in the UK
 

Yokel

LE
Who owns Morgan - and what changes did they bring in? Is the entire car still produced in house? Have the rebuilt their factory? Do they used computerised systems for controlling spares and production planning? Introduced power tolls? What about modern machine tools?

Are they still producing only nine or ten cars per week?

I love the idea of a small niche car producer - but they have to adapt to a changing World.

In all the programmes Sir John made two themes were mostly constant. A massive resistance to change, and a disconnect between the shop floor and management.
Bad form to quote oneself I know, and I am sorry for not saying earlier, but tonight at 2015 UK time Channel Four will be showing a programme about the Morgan company, with a Plus Six being built by hand, with 170 people putting 100 hours of work in over a month.

Not a mass produced vehicle!
 
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Yokel

LE
I have just watched a recording of the second programme - about the manufacture of the new electric London Taxi. Normally a Lithium Ion battery drives the (dc with Pulse Width Modulation speed control I guess) motor, but when the charge starts to get low, a motor is used to start a petrol engine. The motor is then used to charge the battery.

It is great to think we have that technology in the UK, and can mass produce it. The company CEO said that they have started producing a delivery van using the same powerplant.
 

endure

GCM
I have just watched a recording of the second programme - about the manufacture of the new electric London Taxi. Normally a Lithium Ion battery drives the (dc with Pulse Width Modulation speed control I guess) motor, but when the charge starts to get low, a motor is used to start a petrol engine. The motor is then used to charge the battery.

It is great to think we have that technology in the UK, and can mass produce it. The company CEO said that they have started producing a delivery van using the same powerplant.
Owned by Geely which is Chinese ;-)

 

Yokel

LE
Owned by Geely which is Chinese ;-)

How much does ownership matter?

And the tech was developed in Sweden by Volvo (also Geely owner). That said, neither LEVC, Volvo nor Lotus would still be around without FDI from China.
FDI? Foreign Direct Investment? Again is that the same thing as the Chinese parent taking control of everything?

Surely some of the technology and intellectual property (power electronics) is held in the UK?

The UK meinufacturing definitely declines, but you can't be sure that it will disappear completely
It is fighting back - hopefully. But will that be fast to replace the jobs currently being lost in High Street retail and the service sector?
 

endure

GCM
How much does ownership matter?

Who to? To the people assembling the cabs and vans not much as long as the business carries on.

Given the hoohaa that's going on between the UK and China at the moment it probably matters a bit more.
 

Yokel

LE
Maybe it is just me, but I keep getting adverts for Seaward electrical safety testers - designed and made in Britain. Sadly I do not run a manufacturing company.

They are a British manufacturer backing other British manufacturers. We need to get manufacturing.
 
How much does ownership matter?



FDI? Foreign Direct Investment? Again is that the same thing as the Chinese parent taking control of everything?

Surely some of the technology and intellectual property (power electronics) is held in the UK?



It is fighting back - hopefully. But will that be fast to replace the jobs currently being lost in High Street retail and the service sector?
IMHO the country of ownership isn’t really important. What is more important is the quality of ownership. Companies like Geely and Tata invest heavily in technology, products and manufacturing and so over an extended investment timeframe. Compare and contrast with ownership private equity companies or the short term focus of western stock market analysts.

The UK has a long and successful track record Of attracting Foreign Direct Investment. Doing so is as important as securing export markets for British businesses.

As for the IP, rather depends on where it is registered
 

Yokel

LE
IMHO the country of ownership isn’t really important. What is more important is the quality of ownership. Companies like Geely and Tata invest heavily in technology, products and manufacturing and so over an extended investment timeframe. Compare and contrast with ownership private equity companies or the short term focus of western stock market analysts.

The UK has a long and successful track record Of attracting Foreign Direct Investment. Doing so is as important as securing export markets for British businesses.

As for the IP, rather depends on where it is registered
I am strongly tempted to say that in the absence of a bank dedicated for business financing, we ought to consider using a public body, Governnent owned and funded but at arm's length from the politicians, to provide low interest loans for things like product development or expanding premises.

Or they could provide x amount of funding in exchange for a certain share of the company.
 
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We (Penlon) heard the government announce their plan to get JCB, Rolls Royce, Dyson etc to make rapidly manufactured ventilators. Along with the other UK medical ventilator manufacturers we were somewhat perplexed that we not included in the government plan! Making a ventilator is one thing, getting approval for human use is another thing entirely. Fortunately Penlon has 76 years of experience in ventilator design but we still had to phone the Cabinet office & ask if we could help.

The Penlon company was started in the first place in similar circumstances, in WW2 there was an order from the Ministry of Supplies. Designed in 1943, the E.S.O was for use by parachute troops. The M.O.S. required an accurate robust but lightweight chloroform vaporizer ventilator. the ESO was Dropped by parachute with allied Airborne Forces in 1944. This was the first product of the company later to become Penlon Ltd. These were used primarily by the Parachute Field Ambulances & Air Landing Field Ambulances of the British Airborne Division.

During the Vietnam war in C1967 the British Government approached Penlon again, this time to supply anaesthesia equipment civilian hospitals in South Vietnam.

The ventilator made by Penlon for the Coronavirus pandemic was called the ESO 2 after E.S.O. in WW2. Within just 3 days of receiving the emergency ventilator specification from the Cabinet office we were able to demonstrate a fully working prototype of the ESO2, I don't think they were expecting that! You can see why Penlon was so far ahead of the non-medical companies in the race.

We would normally make 800 to 1000 ventilators per year, we made about 11.500 in 12 weeks with the big assistance of large industry to ramp up to (at the peak) 1000 units in 3 days (as mentioned above). It couldn't have been done without Ford UK, Siemens, STI, Airbus, Mclaren F1, Williams F1 & many others.

Due to being involved I am biased of course but I still think this was a proud moment for manufacturing in the UK
You know that for a 100% certainty that your company were not in contact with the Government or are you just miffed that they didn't speak to you personally?
"We"
FFS, you lot can be gullible.
 

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