Manning Control Points

#3
The old system used to have a promotion cut off for all ranks, for example siggies had 7yrs to get their lancejack, lancejacks had 9 years to get there fullscrew and fullscrews had 12 years to get their sgt, if they didn't they got brown lettered. I've asked an RCMO about this, becoz it was mentioned in a "veiled threat" manner on the last MCM div brief when they were talking about the Corps being overmanned (which it is). He was vri shady about it and shyed away from the answer. I've not heard anything concrete, but people are beginning to talk about it more frequently.
 
#4
I have heard it mentioned in a Royal Signals MCM Div roadshow, but it was a couple of years ago. It sounds like the same "veiled threat"; we've got loads of trade A, not enough trade B, if you trade A guys don't consider transfering we'll come down on you. If you're downgraded you'll get the boot; if you don't pass you BPFA you'll get the flogged and then get the boot; if you fail an APWT you'll be stagging-on as a Fig. 11; if you don't reach a the required rank at a Manning Control Point, standby for your brown letter.
 
#5
More a threat than fact. Not that should allow soldiers to rest on their lorrals.

Hope this helps
PM me if you need more help

Mr. Keetch: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what plans he has to conduct discharges at manning control point reviews in the next 12 months. [197084]

Mr. Caplin: There will be no discharges under Queens Regulations for the Army 1975 Paragraph 9.413 in the next 12 months.


There is a high profile Court case comming soon that has the head shed at APC Glasgow worried about the Brown letter subject.
Here is the links

http://www.channel4.com/news/2004/08/week_2/09_army.html

This was a cut n paste from the Torygraph

MoD knew sackings could be challenged
By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 09/08/2004)


The Ministry of Defence knew six years ago that a system used to sack soldiers was open to legal challenge as unfair dismissal.



A newly obtained document, written in May 2002, a few weeks after the Telegraph revealed the way in which the "manning control" system was being used, said the Army was "concerned" that it could be challenged under the Employment Rights Act.

It detailed talks between ministers and MoD civil servants on how to prevent soldiers taking the Army to employment tribunals for "general unfair dismissal".

The briefing paper, to be revealed on Channel 4 News tonight, shows civil servants telling ministers that exemption from the Act could be obtained via an order-in-council but this could only happen with Parliament's consent.

The alternative was to seek an exemption under EU legislation. "This would have the advantage of not drawing attention to the fact that the unfair dismissal provisions of the Act were not being activated," the document says.

The manning control system used a clause in soldiers' contracts that allows the Army to get rid of them after 12 years.

Critics say it was misused to save money on pensions. They cite cases of soldiers who were "manning controlled" to take them off a long-term contract, that qualified them for an immediate pension, and then re-employed on short-term contracts.

Hundreds of soldiers who say they were victims of "manning control" are preparing to take the Army to court.
 
#6
That is the most straightforward answer i have ever had on this subject. I hope this answers a lot of other peoples questions on this matter. Nice to see that MCM div are sweating,,,i know loads of people who were brown lettered over the last 14yrs,,,i wonder if they know about it aswell.
 
#8
Mr. Caplin: "There will be no discharges under Queens Regulations for the Army 1975 Paragraph 9.413 in the next 12 months."

They're in the post now then!!!!
 
#9
Nah, if they've been sent from Glasgow, then they will either be "stuck in the system",,,,lost by some illustrious member of the AGC,,,or sat in you local Adjt's intray for several months.
 
#10
mylittlepony said:
Nah, if they've been sent from Glasgow, then they will either be "stuck in the system",,,,lost by some illustrious member of the AGC,,,or sat in you local Adjt's intray for several months.
Or pinned to your Telic medals, so you should get them sometime around your 22 year point!!

On a serious note, i've seen alot happen with manning control over the years. One lad received his brown letter as a Sys Op, but was allowed to continue once he retraded to storeman. Another who was brown lettered as a full screw, and came off the Cpl-Sgt board 6 months later, also a 20 year Lancejack who was on my Det in Germany - never had a sniff of a brown letter. From that i assume that unless your around the table at Glasgow, its hard to know what they are basing decisions on.

Having read quite alot about what Mr Keetch has been asking in parliment, and what the Infantry/Para lads are persuing through the courts, i find it hard to imagine Glasgow wielding the brown letter in anger across the Corps. I even find the vield threat of it hard to understand in these days of litigation.

Boney
 
#11
MCM div go in fits and starts. Remember options for change, not that it affected us that much, then the mass migration of corps personnell to the GSM private sector in the late 90's, then the big recruiting drive, FRI's, etc. Now we are overmanned? Well whose fault is that then!

You're right, MCM div should know better than to threat the brown letter, but i just wish they would make their minds up. For example they said, no less than a year ago, "if you give notice to terminate, we don't want you back". Too many people used to threaten to sign off, or sign off anyway saying they were unhappy. This used to force the hand of MCM div who would either promote them or post them somewhere where their fanny wouldn't hurt anymore. So, If there is a manning problem, and we don't want people back when they sign off, then why have two people that i know of, signed off, completed resettlement, then been promoted and reinstated in the Regiment. It don't make sense.
 
#12
I know of techs who have left the Army for months and then come back into the Army and gone to the tech trade.
 
#13
At the moment there are some 2500 Ex and still serving service men and women that are on the class action from a wide range of trades in the Army. Based on the evidence in the first test case later this year. It will only take the decision of a judge to go against the MOD, to have egg on the face of both ministers and MCM div.
The Treasury Solicitor for the MOD have not been having a good time in the courts lately. This one could prove to cost them dearly.
 
#16
MCP or an alternative form has been hinted at for a while now. I would take all links to it seriously.

What you need to realise is the Forces is not a job for life. If you consistantly fail to perform or cannot provide a specific role (in which you were trained for) or indeed find yourself in a surplus then Employment law works both ways, you can be released from service.

I would hope though that the MoD have learned from the mistakes they made with the zealus MCP.



Suddenly found yourself getting bad CR grades (below C) ? Take it as a combat indicator, watch and shoot watch and shoot!
 
#17
All wise words Disco. As I posted before, don't rest on your Loral's. Their is still QR. 9.414. All it takes is a quick verbal warning then later a 3 month WO, if your not cutting the mustard after the verbal warning. If, you still fail to improve then your discharge can be applied for. This can happen at any time in your career.
MCP could work if used correctly possible in the same manner as QR 9.414, however the system of MCP was up for abuse for various reasons, at various levels, hence the reason for its sudden suspension and follow up very embarrassing court case to come.
 
#18
kennys-go-nad said:
All wise words Disco. As I posted before, don't rest on your Loral's. Their is still QR. 9.414. All it takes is a quick verbal warning then later a 3 month WO, if your not cutting the mustard after the verbal warning. If, you still fail to improve then your discharge can be applied for. This can happen at any time in your career.
MCP could work if used correctly possible in the same manner as QR 9.414, however the system of MCP was up for abuse for various reasons, at verious levels, hence the reason for its sudden suspension.
Ah, the three month bender, those were the days,,,bring back hanging!
 
#19
Only to worry if your reports were consistent with the warnings given, "Before the action was taken" as Disco rightly commented.

Suddenly found yourself getting bad CR grades (below C) ? Take it as a combat indicator, watch and shoot watch and shoot.
 

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