Manning Control Fiasco

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by brownletter, Dec 3, 2002.

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  1. If anyone left the army or you know someone due to the manning control point ,you might want to look at the link below, the forum is under the name ARMY PENSION MESS.In the past year they has been an investigation into this matter as it turns out the mod might have been wrong in discharging you in this way.Any other info please contact BROWNLETTER@AOL.COM

    edited to make the thread title read more easily..Woopert
  2. Brownletter, just read the link, very disturbing stuff.
  3. Below is  a transcript from paralimentary questions on 27th november 2002

    the numbers just dont add up!!!!!!

    Mr. Keetch: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) how many members of (a) the Army, (b) the Royal Navy and (c) the Royal Air Force have been subject to a manning control review in each of the last 15 years; in which regiments of the armed forces the policy of manning control has been practised over the past 15 years; and what the (i) start and (ii) end dates of the policy were; [82128]

    (2) how many personnel who elected for premature voluntary release in each year since 1996 were issued with a manning control warning certificate beforehand. [82129]

    Mr. Ingram [holding answer 25 November 2002]: The Royal Navy, Army and Royal Air Force have distinctive manning policies that are designed to meet their different requirements. The hon. Member's question relates to the Army's practice for its non-commissioned personnel and can only be answered specifically for the Army. I shall, however, also outline the nearest equivalent Royal Navy and Royal Air Force procedures.


    I refer the hon Member to the answer given on 7 May 2002, (Official Report, column 41) which reported the Army figures for the last five years for those discharged following Manning Control review. The number of soldiers in the Army who have been discharged under Queen's Regulations paragraph 9.413 'Not required for a full army career in each of the last 15 calendar years and by regiment following a Manning Control Point review is summarised in Tables 1 and 2 respectively.

    27 Nov 2002 : Column 333W

    Table 1: Army Manning Control Point discharges by year
    Year Number MCP  
    1988 492  
    1989 467  
    1990 140  
    1991 100  
    1992 331  
    1993 157  
    1994 14  
    1995 7  
    1996 202  
    1997 231  
    1998 175  
    1999 93  
    2000 66  
    2001 47  
    2002 3  
    Total: 2,525  

    Table 2 Army Manning Control Point discharges by Corps and Regiments
    Regiment Total  
    Queen's Own Hussars 5  
    Queen's Royal Irish Hussars 5  
    13th/18th Hussars 9  
    Royal Tank Regiment 16  
    Royal Artillery 234  
    Royal Engineers 300  
    Royal Signals 216  
    Grenadier Guards 27  
    Coldstream Guards 21  
    Scots Guards 8  
    Welsh Guards 9  
    Royal Scots 16  
    Royal Highland Fusiliers 40  
    King's Own Scottish Borderers 9  
    Black Watch 23  
    Queen's Own Highlanders 13  
    The Highland Regiment 17  
    The Gordon Highlanders 20  
    Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders 27  
    Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment 28  
    The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers 26  
    Royal Anglian 18  
    King's Own Royal Border Regiment 23  
    The King's Regiment 22  
    Prince of Wales Own 31  
    Green Howards 35  
    The Royal Irish Regiment 50  
    Royal Irish (Home Service Full Time) 27  
    Queen's Lancashire Regiment 36  
    Duke of Wellington's Regiment 22  
    Devon and Dorset Regiment 26  
    The Cheshire Regiment 21  
    Royal Welsh Fusiliers 29  
    Royal Regiment of Wales 16  
    Gloucestershire Regiment 15  
    The Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Regiment 15  
    The Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters Regiment 16  
    The Royal Hampshire Regiment 13  
    The Staffordshire Regiment 47  
    The Light Infantry 31  
    The Royal Green Jackets 21  
    The Parachute Regiment 12  
    Army Air Corps 24  
    Royal Logistics Corps 79  
    Royal Corps of Transport 169  
    Royal Army Medical Corps 43  
    Royal Army Ordnance Corps 78  
    Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers 352  
    Royal Army Veterninary Corps 7  
    Royal Pioneer Corps 11  
    Intelligence Corps 6  
    Army Catering Corps 82  
    Corps of Army Music 6  
    Women's Royal Army Corps 13  
    Adjutant General's Corps (Staff and Personnel Corps) 19  
    Adjutant General's Corps (Provost) 5  
    Others 36  
    Total: 2,525  

    27 Nov 2002 : Column 334W

    While it is not possible to pinpoint the start date, research of the regulations has shown that Army Manning Control policy has been extant since at least 1952. Although the policy remains in being, as the statistics show, manning control points are used infrequently in the current manning climate.

    The information requested concerning the number of Army personnel who elected for Premature Voluntary Release in each year since 1996 and who were issued with a manning control warning certificate beforehand is not held centrally and could only be provided at disproportionate cost.

    Royal Navy

    Royal Naval Ratings and RM other ranks are normally engaged on a 22-year open engagement, which may be curtailed for reasons of inadequate performance or conduct, or reduced employability for medical reasons. RN Ratings and RM other ranks may apply to extend their service beyond 22 years and will be allowed to do so when there is a service requirement. The Royal Navy does not apply a "manning control review" to ratings but its manning levels and rates of premature voluntary release are continuously monitored, and recruiting, training and promotion targets are set accordingly.

    Royal Air Force

    Non-commissioned engagements in the Royal Air Force are normally offered for an initial period of nine years. Individuals may apply to extend their service to a total of 12 or 15 years and will be allowed to do so when there is a Service requirement. Any further service above this is linked to promotion, for example service to 22 years is possible on promotion to corporal.
  4. Met two blokes in my 13 years service who were 'brown lettered' out of the Army, and both were excellent at their jobs.  I couldn't understand why the Army decided to get rid, the only reason being they were both LCpls coming up to their 12 year point.  Both were so sad about leaving.  I wonder just what happened after they had to leave the job they loved......

    The totals above make disturbing reading, what with manning issues as they are today.
  5. money was saved, that is why mate, we are just a number full stop.
  6. November1987 - 13 1/2 years service- OC sqn interview- basically ran like your not at the required rank for service completed services no longer required- 1 years notice.£4600, and not just me hundreds if not thousands it happened to.
    thanks a lot, Ok I wasn't a full screw, but I had been Just dropped a b*****k and down to Lance jack TS they said. Jan1989 redundancy for several of my colleagues £43,000 and tata with exemplary record. it had gone on before and will do again. that is this fine Army we do (did) work for..
  7. Thanks Bob For your help,much appreciated.

    If anyone knows a person who left due to the manning control point or the brown letter as it was know and anyone who PVR because they were threatened with a brownletter ,

    please get in contact with the following address

    i will put you intouch with a solicitor who is dealing with this case. Please this is no bluff ,it is very much in your interests. Thanks
  8. I knew of many good men that left in 96, for no real reason.
    Was this why and if so can they get back in?
  9. This probably isn't a whole lot of use, but it might interest you. In the last 6 months I have met/heard of 4 people who left the Army between 3 - 5 years ago and have re-enlisted. They are round about my age (40) and officers. I know at least one of them returned £25K odd to the Army to go back into her pension.
  10. At least she got one. :eek:  However you do not contribute to an Armed Forces Pension so im at pains to undertand why she would need to return 24K on return.
    Then again it shows you how much the MOD hate paying a pension
  11. Sorry, should have made myself clearer - I think it was to repay the gratuity because she commuted some of her pension - does that make more sense?
  12. still a cheek all the same.
    I remember after the redudancies that to many left and then four weeks later some of the guys were back in green skin at the request of the MOD but thay could still keep the redundancy money if thay signed on an S-Type contract.
    Funny that was in 94 about the same time MCP was reactivated, what a coincidence  ;D