Manning Control Fiasco

#1
If anyone left the army or you know someone due to the manning control point ,you might want to look at the link below, the forum is under the name ARMY PENSION MESS.In the past year they has been an investigation into this matter as it turns out the mod might have been wrong in discharging you in this way.Any other info please contact BROWNLETTER@AOL.COM
LINK
http://www.servicepals.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=23

edited to make the thread title read more easily..Woopert
 
#3
Below is  a transcript from paralimentary questions on 27th november 2002

ADAM INGRAM
the numbers just dont add up!!!!!!



Mr. Keetch: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) how many members of (a) the Army, (b) the Royal Navy and (c) the Royal Air Force have been subject to a manning control review in each of the last 15 years; in which regiments of the armed forces the policy of manning control has been practised over the past 15 years; and what the (i) start and (ii) end dates of the policy were; [82128]


(2) how many personnel who elected for premature voluntary release in each year since 1996 were issued with a manning control warning certificate beforehand. [82129]


Mr. Ingram [holding answer 25 November 2002]: The Royal Navy, Army and Royal Air Force have distinctive manning policies that are designed to meet their different requirements. The hon. Member's question relates to the Army's practice for its non-commissioned personnel and can only be answered specifically for the Army. I shall, however, also outline the nearest equivalent Royal Navy and Royal Air Force procedures.

Army

I refer the hon Member to the answer given on 7 May 2002, (Official Report, column 41) which reported the Army figures for the last five years for those discharged following Manning Control review. The number of soldiers in the Army who have been discharged under Queen's Regulations paragraph 9.413 'Not required for a full army career in each of the last 15 calendar years and by regiment following a Manning Control Point review is summarised in Tables 1 and 2 respectively.


27 Nov 2002 : Column 333W


Table 1: Army Manning Control Point discharges by year
Year Number MCP  
1988 492  
1989 467  
1990 140  
1991 100  
1992 331  
1993 157  
1994 14  
1995 7  
1996 202  
1997 231  
1998 175  
1999 93  
2000 66  
2001 47  
2002 3  
Total: 2,525  

Table 2 Army Manning Control Point discharges by Corps and Regiments
Regiment Total  
Queen's Own Hussars 5  
Queen's Royal Irish Hussars 5  
13th/18th Hussars 9  
Royal Tank Regiment 16  
Royal Artillery 234  
Royal Engineers 300  
Royal Signals 216  
Grenadier Guards 27  
Coldstream Guards 21  
Scots Guards 8  
Welsh Guards 9  
Royal Scots 16  
Royal Highland Fusiliers 40  
King's Own Scottish Borderers 9  
Black Watch 23  
Queen's Own Highlanders 13  
The Highland Regiment 17  
The Gordon Highlanders 20  
Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders 27  
Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment 28  
The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers 26  
Royal Anglian 18  
King's Own Royal Border Regiment 23  
The King's Regiment 22  
Prince of Wales Own 31  
Green Howards 35  
The Royal Irish Regiment 50  
Royal Irish (Home Service Full Time) 27  
Queen's Lancashire Regiment 36  
Duke of Wellington's Regiment 22  
Devon and Dorset Regiment 26  
The Cheshire Regiment 21  
Royal Welsh Fusiliers 29  
Royal Regiment of Wales 16  
Gloucestershire Regiment 15  
The Royal Gloucestershire, Berkshire and Wiltshire Regiment 15  
The Worcestershire and Sherwood Foresters Regiment 16  
The Royal Hampshire Regiment 13  
The Staffordshire Regiment 47  
The Light Infantry 31  
The Royal Green Jackets 21  
The Parachute Regiment 12  
Army Air Corps 24  
Royal Logistics Corps 79  
Royal Corps of Transport 169  
Royal Army Medical Corps 43  
Royal Army Ordnance Corps 78  
Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers 352  
Royal Army Veterninary Corps 7  
Royal Pioneer Corps 11  
Intelligence Corps 6  
Army Catering Corps 82  
Corps of Army Music 6  
Women's Royal Army Corps 13  
Adjutant General's Corps (Staff and Personnel Corps) 19  
Adjutant General's Corps (Provost) 5  
Others 36  
Total: 2,525  



27 Nov 2002 : Column 334W


While it is not possible to pinpoint the start date, research of the regulations has shown that Army Manning Control policy has been extant since at least 1952. Although the policy remains in being, as the statistics show, manning control points are used infrequently in the current manning climate.

The information requested concerning the number of Army personnel who elected for Premature Voluntary Release in each year since 1996 and who were issued with a manning control warning certificate beforehand is not held centrally and could only be provided at disproportionate cost.

Royal Navy

Royal Naval Ratings and RM other ranks are normally engaged on a 22-year open engagement, which may be curtailed for reasons of inadequate performance or conduct, or reduced employability for medical reasons. RN Ratings and RM other ranks may apply to extend their service beyond 22 years and will be allowed to do so when there is a service requirement. The Royal Navy does not apply a "manning control review" to ratings but its manning levels and rates of premature voluntary release are continuously monitored, and recruiting, training and promotion targets are set accordingly.

Royal Air Force

Non-commissioned engagements in the Royal Air Force are normally offered for an initial period of nine years. Individuals may apply to extend their service to a total of 12 or 15 years and will be allowed to do so when there is a Service requirement. Any further service above this is linked to promotion, for example service to 22 years is possible on promotion to corporal.
 
#5
Met two blokes in my 13 years service who were 'brown lettered' out of the Army, and both were excellent at their jobs.  I couldn't understand why the Army decided to get rid, the only reason being they were both LCpls coming up to their 12 year point.  Both were so sad about leaving.  I wonder just what happened after they had to leave the job they loved......

The totals above make disturbing reading, what with manning issues as they are today.
 
E

ex-dvr

Guest
#7
November1987 - 13 1/2 years service- OC sqn interview- basically ran like your not at the required rank for service completed services no longer required- 1 years notice.£4600, and not just me hundreds if not thousands it happened to.
thanks a lot, Ok I wasn't a full screw, but I had been Just dropped a b*****k and down to Lance jack TS they said. Jan1989 redundancy for several of my colleagues £43,000 and tata with exemplary record. it had gone on before and will do again. that is this fine Army we do (did) work for..
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#9
Thanks Bob For your help,much appreciated.

If anyone knows a person who left due to the manning control point or the brown letter as it was know and anyone who PVR because they were threatened with a brownletter ,

please get in contact with the following address brownletter@aol.com

i will put you intouch with a solicitor who is dealing with this case. Please this is no bluff ,it is very much in your interests. Thanks
 
#11
This probably isn't a whole lot of use, but it might interest you. In the last 6 months I have met/heard of 4 people who left the Army between 3 - 5 years ago and have re-enlisted. They are round about my age (40) and officers. I know at least one of them returned £25K odd to the Army to go back into her pension.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#16
my story by mr x

I was released from the Army in 2000 due to the Manning Control ruling; this was after twelve years of dedicated service. I was injured in a parachuting accident. I fractured my shoulder and caused damage to the scapular and collar bone and back, also there were was other internal injuries. I had emergency surgery and my shoulder was totally reconstructed. From that point I have had various ongoing operations and rehalibitation.To this present day I have only 40% movement of my right shoulder and am classed as 30% disabled

I should have been medically discharged and given a medical pension for my injuries. Various medical experts including one of services leading orthopedic surgeon recommended that I should be medically discharged. Instead I was given a manning control point discharge at my twelve year service point. I tried to complain about this to my superiors, but they told me I could do nothing about it and forget about it complaining. These officers showed no emotion or compassion about telling me that I was going to be made redundant, especially after all of them knew about my medical condition.  

I spent a further six years in my. Because I was medically downgraded, I was no longer an active soldier, and had no chance of promotion. I even was given the humiliating nickname of Sick note by other soldiers. My work role in my unit consisted of mundane jobs that other soldiers would class as punishment. These included being a waiter, post room orderly and the unit’s runner (dog’s body or tea boy).In my last appraisal I was labeled as being the unit’s odd job man by a major.

In 1998 I had a breakdown and was recommended to see a physiatrist and in 1999 I saw a physiologist to sort out problems. Both concurred that I didn’t have a mental problem, but did state that I was suffering from anxiety and stress regarding my future in the army. This in turn caused problems at home, which nearly cost me my marriage.    

In my last four years in the services I suffered constant mental bullying and harassment from all ranks especially high ranking officers. At one point my commanding officer stated “I was a waste of the army’s rations”. In my last year in the services, I worked in the units families office which is located about a mile from the barracks, I worked there as a tea boy and answered phones. The unit’s adjutant posted me there to keep away from the barracks as he stated I was trouble maker and embarrassment to the regiment.

I believe I shouldn’t have been treated this way.


It’s been a long road of ups and downs in the last eight years, it’s been more downs than ups.But this has not stopped me how I feel regarding the services. I loved the army and I always wanted to join since I was a child, I would have died for my country. But also I feel cheated, let down and hurt, I ask the question all the time “why me”.


The hardest thing for me at the time was losing my job, I lost my self respect, and there were a lot of problems in my personal life through it.  I feel so ashamed and embarrassed about my actions and I am now focusing on rebuilding my life. I lost contact with my family two years ago; this is after constant arguments on what I was going to do after I left the services.

All I receive from the forces is a paltry war pension of 150 pound a month, if I was given a medical discharge I would have received around 500 pound a month. The way I look at the manning control system is that it was designed to save money whether it was fair or unfair; I was one of its victims.
 
#18
Must say chaps, having read through the posts and the list provided, one Regiment that I had the pleasure to work with as a Company Clerk :-/  had 14 soldiers at the most going for an interview with OC for this.
at least 8 men signed off that day very pissed off the rest went S-TYPE.
That was in only one month so were thay got that figure I dont know.
Looks like the spin doctors are out again  ;D    
 
#19
Take note of what Flip Flop said. The British Legion will bend over backwards to fight this for you and if they think that you have been fcuked over, they will fight it to the bitter end.

This I know from my own experience, which ended up, thanks to the RBL, very much in my favour ;D
 

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