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Mandatory weekends

#1
Just received a message from CoC stating that certain weekends this year are mandatory for all personnel. Those personnel who do not attend said weekends will not receive their bounty next year!
Personnel who cannot attend these weekends must write a letter to the CO stating valid reasons for non attendance.

Can somebody please correct me if i am wrong for thinking that the TA was run on a voluntary basis, and as long as MATTS were passed, annual camp completed and enough training days put in, that is enough for Bounty qualification?
I am not bothered about going away on these weekends, just a bit miffed at being told they are mandatory, and curious about the legality of such a statement? :?
Having just returned from a tour, i am not particularly keen on telling my employer that i need yet more time off, only 3 or 4 days after having returned to work!
 
#2
Not that old chestnut again. COs and OCs used to drag this one out. The plan is lets plan a weekend that

A, The blokes wont like, so lets play the bounty card!

B, The world cup or other sporting thing is on, lets play the bounty card!

C, The blokes have just done two weekends on the trot as well as working a civi job we need them in for a third weekend, lets play the bounty card!

Of course I maybe a cynical old bas tard who has seen it before, but all those that agree say aye! (as in pirate speak)

BW
 
#3
Have herd it plenty of times before.

As far as im aware the bounty is at the CO'S discression though if you have all MATTS and days ets I would like to see them hold it back for a missed weekend.

A quick note to say you wont be there does no harm for your case though.
 
#4
brucewillis said:
Of course I maybe a cynical old bas tard who has seen it before, but all those that agree say aye! (as in pirate speak)

BW
Certainly got that part right!!

Guess that means i'm right in thinking its a load of tosh then.
Didn't wanna pipe up about it and be wrong. Not like me i know, but there is no table of truth here is there!!

Waldorffmuppet, i understand that it is the COs discretion. But like i said, i was under the impression that the TA is solely on a volunteer basis. Which is where my confusion arose. I guess my CO will be getting a politely worded letter stating that i cannot attend the said weekend(s).
 
#5
"Keep ya heed doon, bonnie lad! " No sense in rocking the boat. As Waldorfmuppet fella says, if you have done MATTs, camp, enough days etc it would be hard for you not to get bounty. Not wanting to cause a revolution (again).

And as for being an old bas tard, rearrange these three letters T F P.
 
#6
If they need us to attend these mandatory weekends then they should write to our employers telling them we have to have that weekend off. We get this all the time and as most of the personnel work weekends shifts in the NHS we can't always get the time off.
Saying that, I'm missing a mandatory weekend coming up because my son needs transport and support to a triathlon.
"Dear CO, my family comes first, then work (cos it pays the bills), then TA.
Thanks mate (your obediant servant and all that)

Caulhead"
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#7
Weekends cannot be made mandatory, but nor is the efficienty cert from the CO!

If the CO feels that a soldier, despite passing MATTs and doing the minimum MTDs is not "efficient" then the cert can be withheld. Therefore, in the Inf example, the bloke who does the bare minimum to get by via AT, Remembrance, "admin" days etc but fails to attend the hard Bn exercises should perhaps not be surprised if the cert is withheld as he has not been on exercise to demonstrate "efficiency".

This is perfectly fair as long as sufficient starred/mandatory/compulsory/COs (delete to show appropriate name) weekends are offered throughout the training year and the pass mark is say 2 from 4.
 
#8
brucewillis said:
").

And as for being an old bas tard, rearrange these three letters T F P.
How about these four letters U N C T!

From the answers i have been reading on here, it looks like the way forward is a letter along the lines of work being my first priority etc etc.

Cheers for your help guys.

KK
 
#9
To hijack slightly, seems an appropriate place to ask.

If i completed CMSR on the 25th April 09, will i receive bounty this year? or do i have to wait until next?
 
#10
Lampard said:
To hijack slightly, seems an appropriate place to ask.

If i completed CMSR on the 25th April 09, will i receive bounty this year? or do i have to wait until next?
Next year. Essentially, the training year runs from1 Apr to 1 Apr.

msr
 
#12
The_Duke said:
Weekends cannot be made mandatory, but nor is the efficienty cert from the CO!

If the CO feels that a soldier, despite passing MATTs and doing the minimum MTDs is not "efficient" then the cert can be withheld. Therefore, in the Inf example, the bloke who does the bare minimum to get by via AT, Remembrance, "admin" days etc but fails to attend the hard Bn exercises should perhaps not be surprised if the cert is withheld as he has not been on exercise to demonstrate "efficiency".

This is perfectly fair as long as sufficient starred/mandatory/compulsory/COs (delete to show appropriate name) weekends are offered throughout the training year and the pass mark is say 2 from 4.
Thou ist taking the piss no?
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#13
StabTiffy2B said:
The_Duke said:
Weekends cannot be made mandatory, but nor is the efficienty cert from the CO!

If the CO feels that a soldier, despite passing MATTs and doing the minimum MTDs is not "efficient" then the cert can be withheld. Therefore, in the Inf example, the bloke who does the bare minimum to get by via AT, Remembrance, "admin" days etc but fails to attend the hard Bn exercises should perhaps not be surprised if the cert is withheld as he has not been on exercise to demonstrate "efficiency".

This is perfectly fair as long as sufficient starred/mandatory/compulsory/COs (delete to show appropriate name) weekends are offered throughout the training year and the pass mark is say 2 from 4.
Thou ist taking the piss no?
No. Number of days pay collected does not always equate to efficiency, therefore "selective" attenders put their bounty at risk.

I standby for no end of whining, bleating, BRL outbursts....
 
#14
It's a balance isn't it, if both sides are reasonable then attendance at weekends is good, everyone gets a bounty and the individual can duck out to deal with the inevitable things life serves up.

However, these things are often said because either the CO is a knob (in which case unlucky) or people are taking the p!ss and he wishes to make a point. Make sure that's not you and that your CoC will back you up on that.

I'm assuming it's not something like limited possibilities for MATTS here, that does happen (is happening for us !) and there's not a lot you can do - well, apart from go and get a MATTS related qual and help out.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#15
The key ones for us are the Bn airborne exercises and the Officer/SNCO study periods, plus camp. exceptions can be, and are, made depending on the individual.

Generally good attender for all training but honestly cannot make one key weekend? No problem - efficiency will have been proved in other ways; other FTX, camp, deployment in previous year etc.

Very selective attender, always unavailable for camp or the hard key career courses but available for ski trips and OTC visits? Always in for the classroom/barracks based events, but never for the hard field ones? Tough - get yourself in and working in trade, or risk losing your bounty.

None of this is sprung on people at the last minute, and plenty of warning/explanation beforehand. It is all done well in advance and on a minimum "1 out of 2" basis, ie prove yourself capable at least once in a 12 month period.
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#16
Some units have their own extra criteria that must be met before you can receive your bounty. For instance my unit which does a lot of ceremonials (about one a month on average) has a standing order that to qualify for your bounty you must do at least three a year. IMO this is fair enough as otherwise it is always the same sad drill wallers (like me) who get lumbered with it. As previously mentioned though, the hierarchy have been known to play the bounty card for un-popular weekends / sporting events etc.
 
#17
Our unit has a barrister amongst its junior ranks who stated quite categorically that there is no such thing as compulsary weekends, unless for mobilisation, war, or civil emergencies, because we are classed as casual labour.

However, previous contributors are right that the CO is trying to force the issue. I can remember years ago, one of my units had 6 compulsory weekends a year but then none of us knew any better in those days

Interesting one !!
 
#18
bobos's mate is legally correct - if you are casual labour they cannot specify weekends as compulsory (no attend no bounty yada yada yada). Annual Camp is another matter however.

The casual labour status has been confimed by the courts - hence no pension rights.

Whether anyone has actually sued the MoD for their bounty - that's whole other can of worms.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#19
Buttmaster General said:
bobos's mate is legally correct - if you are casual labour they cannot specify weekends as compulsory (no attend no bounty yada yada yada). Annual Camp is another matter however.

The casual labour status has been confimed by the courts - hence no pension rights.

Whether anyone has actually sued the MoD for their bounty - that's whole other can of worms.
But done properly, you are not making any one event mandatory - you are making attending one or more of any number of trade weekends essential if that person is to be deemed efficient.

If you fail to perform in your required trade at least once in a training year, how can you possibly be efficient?
 
#20
Buttmaster General said:
bobos's mate is legally correct - if you are casual labour they cannot specify weekends as compulsory (no attend no bounty yada yada yada).
Whoah there, hoss.

The barrister is correct that no weekend can be made compulsary in the sense that TA soldiers cannot be forced to attend them (other than if called out under the Reserve Forces Act).

But that does not lead to the next thing you say, which was that "no attend, no bounty" is legally invalid. In the way The_Duke mentioned, a CO does have the discretion to withhold the efficiency certificate if he (in his discretion, reasonably exercised) deems that a soldier is not efficient. And non-attendance at critical weekends could be grounds for doing so.

Maybe the CO should say:

"This weekend is not mandatory. However, if you don't do it without pretty damned good reason, I say you won't get your efficiency cert and hence no bounty. My discretion, reasonably exercised. Disagree? Judicial review my ass, muthafoka."

Obviously, it helps if the said weekend actually is crucial.
 

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