Manchester United FC

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
Could be worse, we could have got relegated and not won two European Cups during our current abstinence ^~
We have already won an FA Cup and a Eurolotto cup and sacked both those managers.
:-D
Feck knows what we will do to Solskjaer. At this rate a ten year contract beckons.
 
Could be worse, we could have got relegated and not won two European Cups during our current abstinence ^~
Still got bigger gates than you lot when we were in Div 2 - probably cos the Docs team were far better to watch as well.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
Still got bigger gates than you lot when we were in Div 2 - probably cos the Docs team were far better to watch as well.
They were better than this Utd shower as well.
 
They were better than this Utd shower as well.
Had we collapsed yesterday, I might have agreed with you. But we didn't. This team - and management - is largely the same (in some positions better) than the one that was in the middle of a record run 12 months ago. Put a real midfield in this team, with some strength in depth and we'll start to get some consistency, which is actually what we're missing. It's a young enough team that the potential is there to be much better.

There are no magic bullets and we will have to do this the hard way. Calling for the managers head every twelve months is not a recipe for success - in fact it compounds the problem and cranks up the pressure for short term decisions over long-term patience.

We have tried the anointed succession plan, panicked after 9 months under pressure from Jose's mates in the media and binned Moyes.

Then we went for the respected elder statesman in LvG. He managed to make watching the team painful - as well as discarding unsung jewels like Jonny Evans - who on his worst day is still head and shoulders above Lurch, Rojo etc. So he got binned in a distinctly ungracious way after winning the cup..

Then we went for the "proven winner" as all his media mates recommended. Yes he won a couple of trophies and finished second to City, but then had his usual fall-out with everyone. You can see it happening again with Spurs now.

If we really don't think OGS is the way forward, we need to have a very good plan B - which isn't just based on this years bright young thing, or any of the options we've tried above. That plan B takes months if not a couple of years to put in place - and doesn't guarantee a thing.

OGS is at least trying to do the right thing long term. There's some good kids coming through who need two things :

1. A decent midfield, shorn of the embarrassment that is the show pony.
2. Some backbone from the more senior pros at the club - or some brought in to provide it.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
Had we collapsed yesterday, I might have agreed with you. But we didn't. This team - and management - is largely the same (in some positions better) than the one that was in the middle of a record run 12 months ago. Put a real midfield in this team, with some strength in depth and we'll start to get some consistency, which is actually what we're missing. It's a young enough team that the potential is there to be much better.

There are no magic bullets and we will have to do this the hard way. Calling for the managers head every twelve months is not a recipe for success - in fact it compounds the problem and cranks up the pressure for short term decisions over long-term patience.

We have tried the anointed succession plan, panicked after 9 months under pressure from Jose's mates in the media and binned Moyes.

Then we went for the respected elder statesman in LvG. He managed to make watching the team painful - as well as discarding unsung jewels like Jonny Evans - who on his worst day is still head and shoulders above Lurch, Rojo etc. So he got binned in a distinctly ungracious way after winning the cup..

Then we went for the "proven winner" as all his media mates recommended. Yes he won a couple of trophies and finished second to City, but then had his usual fall-out with everyone. You can see it happening again with Spurs now.

If we really don't think OGS is the way forward, we need to have a very good plan B - which isn't just based on this years bright young thing, or any of the options we've tried above. That plan B takes months if not a couple of years to put in place - and doesn't guarantee a thing.

OGS is at least trying to do the right thing long term. There's some good kids coming through who need two things :

1. A decent midfield, shorn of the embarrassment that is the show pony.
2. Some backbone from the more senior pros at the club - or some brought in to provide it.
That midfield is an embarrassment to this club. I like James as a squad player, that has been quite a decent signing but I just wish that that the management would put the likes of Lingard, Fred, Matic Pogba and a few others on the transfer list, look this lot are for sale, make an offer and you might get lucky, or unlucky, we will even throw Jones in for free hows that for a deal?
We will save a few million on wages and then with the right manager, I’m sorry Solskjaer just doesn’t do it for me, we need Allegri who will no doubt attract the right player but also spot a good one and he will get them playing like winner.
However that Dick Woodhead has to go as well.
We agree we want the best for our club but we will have to agree to disagree on the manager. :salut:
 
Buckle up, this is a long one. I've been thinking of the problems we have.

Most of the problems are caused by us playing squad rotation players as first choice. There are very few players in the line-up where you could say they should be the first name on the sheet every week. There are too many positions where we are dreadfully weak in depth and our first choice wouldn't be the first choice in other teams.

A lot of our youth should be out on loan and learning week in and week out, but the lack of quality depth means it's a huge risk.

Our top players are over-played and their bodies are failing. The whole situation is destroying confidence amongst the team and I suspect there is not much to stop a full-out breakdown in morale.

OGS shouldn't be our manager. but he is. The reason he's in charge boils down to the fact that Woodward (and the Glazers etc.) have completely stuffed the side. THey've let key players leave without replacing them, they've dramatically overspent on some, then refused to spend on others. Our transfers are a joke and I can see the January window slamming shut without any movement inwards. Young's departure was mishandled and proves his captaincy was a farce. Good riddance to him.

In short, Woodward needs to get his hands out of transfers and hand it over to a DoF, but there are no DoF's coming. That's so far down their priority list it's laughable. Woodward will continue to **** it up for the future.

As I said before on this thread. OGS could have been a really good manager if he had come into a team already built and ready to win. He could also have succeeded if the structure was in place for solid transfers.

None of these things are true and he's a sacrificial lamb. Glazers & Woodward are counting on the fans love for him as a player to keep THEM safe.

as for the team? I can count the number of players I'd use as first team, first choice on the fingers of @dingerr's hands.

In the short term, we're f*cked this season and next. We need to win the Europa league to stand a chance of attracting anyone, but that's not likely. I can't see the situation changing unless the Glazers start losing a lot of money coming in. Woodward needs to hand over to an experienced DoF, Once that's in place, we can look at bringing in a world class coaching setup.

De Gea - Not the keeper he was two or three seasons ago. As other's have said, he's not aggressive enough when defending set pieces. He's weak when challenging. Imagine Schmeichel against Van Dijk yesterday? He would have had to scrape VVD off the pitch.

Reflexively, he's still a great keeper, but the years of woeful defending from the back line have had their toll. I think in the last season or so, he's been thinking "why the F*CK should I bother risking myself"

Verdict - Keep for now as there's not much better out there that we could steal.

Romero - Just keep him. No better second choice and should replace De Gea in more games.

Grant - Invisible and unplayed. If we were in a stronger position, I'd suggest playing him more often

Joel Pereira - as with Grant.

Lindelof - Runs hot and cold. There are times he's immensve and times he's crap. Much like Maguire, I think he needs time to gel with the other defenders, but also needs to be rested occasionally. We're expecting him and
Maguire to play every minute of every match because we have no CB depth.

Verdict - Keep. Even if we sign another higher class CB, he gives the squad more depth.

Bailly - We've lost him for two many games for the last few seaons. When he's on form he's good.

Verdict - Give him 1 more run in the side when he's fit, and re-assess. He might be suitable as a squad player only.

Jones - Calamity Jones. Has good moments punctuated by woeful, inept and downright shit performances.

Verdict - Transfer list and take the first offer over £5

Maguire - He's not the best CB we could have got, and we've drastically overpaid for him. Captaincy decision was questionable but given the lack of choice, it's understandable. I hate the "goalkeeper captain" notion, The captain needs to lead out of the box and not be stuck back at the goal. Captains should be fully capable of taking team-mates by the scruff off the ballsack and ordering them about. That isn't De Gea.

Verdict - Keep him as a first choice CB

Smalling - Not much change of him returning now, which is a shame.
Verdict - If we can get him back, keep him as a squad player, if not, sell.

Dalot - When he first appeared, I was thinking we finally have a replacement for Young, but he doesn't get enough game time. With Young gone, he should be first choice to back up Wan-Bissaka. If I was in charge, I'd pair the two up as much as possible to learn from each other.

Verdict - Keep

Shaw - Where do I start. Injury prone doesn't begin to cover it. He's spent so much game time out that it's a joke. He also has the same issue as Rooney did in that he looks constantly over-weight and unfit. Unlike Rooney, he's not capable of overcoming that appearance. Williams has made him look several MPH slower.

Verdict - Keep and rotate with Williams, but look for a 3rd choice LB to replace him when he inevitably gets hurt.

Fosu-Mensah - Hasn't played since Aug 2018. He needs to prove himself soon or United need to find a replacement

Verdict - Not sure, if we weren't so light on players, I'd say sell

Wan-Bissaka - Young, fast, solid. Yes, his weakness is getting forward, but that can come with time and the right support.

Verdict - Keep

Tuanzebe - Seemed solid in the matches he's played since his return, but needs game time.

Verdict - Keep

Rojo - Not worth the money any more

Verdict - Sell


Pogba - A thousand words have been written on him. Skill is undeniable, as is his attitude. He has the potential to be one of the very best in the game, but his agent is a twat and stirs up shit regularly. His game is stifled by the quality of the midfield he's been with. Fred's improvement lately, combined with someone like Vidic to hold defensively might see him back to form. His injury crisis was handled badly as his is "will he wont he" story.

Verdict - Keep if possible, but I think the Glazers & Woodward want their payday.

Mata - Legs have definitely gone, but his tactics and creativity are still there.

Verdict - Keep for now, especially for lower level opposition, pair him with the younger players. If he was playing more regularly, I would have made him captain

Lingard - There have been times where he has been untouchable. Those times have gone. Overplayed and overhyped.

Verdict - Sell

Pereira - Overplayed now. Tries too many tricks which he fails to pull off.

Verdict - Keep as a squad rotation

Fred - He's taken far too long to settle, and we should have played him for longer runs than we did. His quality is there but passing is questionable. He appears to be dogged in tackling back and I think defensive suits him better than attack. Could be handy with Pogba or A N Other as attacking midfield.

James - Fast as F*CK but he's been overplayed lately. He needs a break and to refocus. His role also needs to be looked at. Constantly on the left which I think is not his preference.

Verdict - Keep but give him support

Gomes - Needs game time desperately. He's small, slight and he hasn't shown his best form.

Verdict - Put him out on loan for a season or 2. I wouldn't sell him now.

Matic - Age is a factor, but he's strong, determined and able to hold off players. Defensive seems his best role

Verdict - Keep in rotation with Fred/Mctominay as defensive midfield

Garner - Youth again, and suffering the same as Gomes. Needs game time.

Verdict - Put him out on loan.

McTominay - Improving but nowhere near first choice. SHould be a bench player brought on to see out a game.

Verdict - Keep

Rashford - Definitely needs work on his finishing as it's not clinical yet. He also needs to be ditched from taking free-kicks. He and Martial have the same attacking strategy of "run at the defense and hope to get through" All of our attack are stifled because of midfield creativity though.

Verdict - Keep but he needs a strike partner that's more aggressive in the box.

Martial - Infuriating. There are games he goes completely missing. There are times he looks bored and uninterested. I've seen matches where he wanders around the pitch like he's lost.

Verdict - Be prepared to sell at a decent price.

Chong - Underplayed and has looked poor in the games I've seen. He's young, and I think needs a lot of development.

Verdict - Keep until we bolster our attack then send on loan for a season.

Greenwood - Young, fast, needs some muscle built up to hold off challenges. His game time needs to be managed carefully so we don't burn him out like Rashford was.

Verdict - keep

Sanchez - Overpaid, overhyped and underperformed. A shadow of the player he was.

Verdict - Sell
 

TamH70

MIA
Morning chaps, and what a ball bouncingly lovely morning it is too!

Many pages ago I told you OGS is not your man for a rebuild. After yesterday, I stand by this.

In our thread I said he'll see his way home by leaving three up top and hoping to counter. If i, as a football coach who never went beyond youth level, could see this then you can be damned sure Klopp did.

To my points then. Injury ravaged as you are, you gave us a game, but that only allows you to tell yourselves a story. "We were in it", "they looked worried", "we nearly equalised".

I recognise these stories. They're the ones we told ourselves for three decades. You are thirty points behind the league leaders today. You ended last season thirty one points behind the same team. By no stretch of the imagination has this season been better than last. Given the truth of that statement, why are you so split as a fanbase as to the fate of OGS?

He simply is not good enough.

The time to hold your nose and take your medicine has come. Genuinely, I'll bow out after this but this would be my thinking.

Lose the "next big manager" thinking, get a good one. Everton have just got Ancelloti and I promise you that will end in tears.

Find a good, young hungry coach, someone who genuinely makes players better. A stat on R5 last night. Klopp took over a team worth 390 million. Today's market value is 1.83 Billion. He makes players better.

Having found that coach get rid of Woodward, he's fùcking useless. Establish a system of live scouts and data crunchers to find your hidden gems, buy them and develop them within a system that encourages similar styles of play across the club teams at all levels. When you're nearly there don't be afraid to cut the pursestrings and go big to complete the puzzle.

Sack your entire sports science department and start again. No way should you have the number, level and seriousness of injuries you've had. Impact injuries, yes, making Rashford available with a stress fracture in his back, no way.

Stop worrying about the next three seasons. Rebuild, do it well and set the foundation of your next great (spits) team. You are stuck in a cycle of getting managers, buying players for that manager who demand ever increasing wages due to your perceived lack of success, failing, players on big wages not caring about playing for the club, results suffer, sack the manager, and another circuit on the merry go round.

Bite the bullet now and you might have another title within ten years, ie three seasons. Fail to do so and then it's 15...20...30?

I'm no guru, and to be honest I don't care if United never win another trophy again. But your way home is definitely not more of the same as the last six years.

Also I want to echo CAARPS on Rashford. But I do think it was monumentally stupid to risk him at all with a spinal stress fracture. Just another example if the poor thought processes at your club.

See you next season.
Have Man U employed Arsenal's old sports science team? I'm only asking as the list of injuries and balls-ups in dealing with them echo what I read about the Gunners over a period of some years under Wenger.
 

bedended

War Hero
Morning All,
1st photo is where Utd fans in Delhi go to watch live Utd games.
I'm not a fan of either the scaasers nor the mancs but have a cousin who has a season ticket to Anfield and a brother-in-law with a season ticket to Old Trafford, so went along for the Sunday game.
Sang along with 'YNWA' and cheered when the goals went in(just for shits'n'giggles:eek:) didn't endear me to the 200 gupta Utd fans.
The main chant they had was 'You Fat Bastard' which I think must've been aimed at John Barnes:).

E2a: Last photo's,. They also have a 'Transformer'(the one on the left:-D)just as you walk in, apparently built by a local artist.
 

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Morning All,
1st photo is where Utd fans in Delhi go to watch live Utd games.
I'm not a fan of either the scaasers nor the mancs but have a cousin who has a season ticket to Anfield and a brother-in-law with a season ticket to Old Trafford, so went along for the Sunday game.
Sang along with 'YNWA' and cheered when the goals went in(just for shits'n'giggles:eek:) didn't endear me to the 200 gupta Utd fans.
The main chant they had was 'You Fat Bastard' which I think must've been aimed at John Barnes:).

E2a: Last photo's,. They also have a 'Transformer'(the one on the left:-D)just as you walk in, apparently built by a local artist.
And there I was, in Macedonia doing some sneaky beaky stuff for..ahem, you know who. Went out into the town on the piss. First bar we cam across, you will never believe it...'Shankly's Bar' thought I was back on Scotty Road.
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
And there I was, in Macedonia doing some sneaky beaky stuff for..ahem, you know who. Went out into the town on the piss. First bar we cam across, you will never believe it...'Shankly's Bar' thought I was back on Scotty Road.
And why post that on the Utd thread and not the Liverpool thread?
 
And why post that on the Utd thread and not the Liverpool thread?
Err in reply to the post with the photos showing some dodgy MUFC Bar in a far off land. To emphasise the far reaching influence and effects of both clubs in other countries.
 
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It's more than likely that any new owner for United (should the twat-glazers ever sell) would come from South East Asia than it would from the GCC. Chinese ownership is a real possibility.
 

TheAssassin

Old-Salt
And there I was, in Macedonia doing some sneaky beaky stuff for..ahem, you know who. Went out into the town on the piss. First bar we cam across, you will never believe it...'Shankly's Bar' thought I was back on Scotty Road.
Take it you were undercover for the Benefits Agency looking for scousers "too sick to work"
 
Take it you were undercover for the Benefits Agency looking for scousers "too sick to work"
Not in friggin Macedonia and Albania I wasn't....8)8):rmp:
 
Borders on or near Bulgaria, believe scousers have caused mischief there in the recent past
Who hasn't. Queens Lancashire Regiment, The Kings Regiment. The Irish Guards.

Moving on...
 
I had huge doubts when Fenway took over Liverpool. I was expecting another version of the Glasers but I'm glad to have been proven wrong. The difference in the clubs starts from the top.

It's taken Kloppy 3 years to build the team, and it will take OGS [even if he is the man to do it] at least that long to rescue Utd from the doldrums given support and finance. Totally agree that Woodward needs to go as he is a huge drag on the club.

It will take at least 3 years to get rid of the dross players and bring in suitable replacements. I also see Pogba as part of the problem, someone who sees himself as bigger then the team and even bigger then that club [I agree that his agent is an utter b'stard too]. Get rid for maximum cash and buy someone who wants to wear the shirt. Get rid of Sanchez too or else make him play.

Work out who are 1st choice players and who are the squad players and get them into a settled formation. Doesn't matter what the formation is, but once it's settled and players konw what they are supposed to do you can tweak it.

Buy OGS a supply of cheap throwable teacups and a hairdryer. He's making the same errors that Roy Evans made at Liverpool, trying too much to be one of the lads.
 

TamH70

MIA
I had huge doubts when Fenway took over Liverpool. I was expecting another version of the Glasers but I'm glad to have been proven wrong. The difference in the clubs starts from the top.

It's taken Kloppy 3 years to build the team, and it will take OGS [even if he is the man to do it] at least that long to rescue Utd from the doldrums given support and finance. Totally agree that Woodward needs to go as he is a huge drag on the club.

It will take at least 3 years to get rid of the dross players and bring in suitable replacements. I also see Pogba as part of the problem, someone who sees himself as bigger than the team and even bigger than that club [I agree that his agent is an utter b'stard too]. Get rid for maximum cash and buy someone who wants to wear the shirt. Get rid of Sanchez too or else make him play.

Work out who are 1st choice players and who are the squad players and get them into a settled formation. Doesn't matter what the formation is, but once it's settled and players know what they are supposed to do you can tweak it.

Buy OGS a supply of cheap throwable teacups and a hairdryer. He's making the same errors that Roy Evans made at Liverpool, trying too much to be one of the lads.
You are diffy one item in your requirements for OGS vis-a-vis sorting shit out in his dressing room - an extremely enraged Govan accent. Otherwise, his hairdryer will just be blowing hot air.
 
1 down against Burnley again.

AT one point WILLIAMS was trying to get the rest of the team going. FFS

Martial having one of his "can't really be bothered" games.

Every time I watch this team, they get up to the final third, then pass it about a bit, then go backwards.

at one point, Burnley were chasing Maguire back into his own half.

This team is in crisis.
 

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