Managerial Skills of OC's

Discussion in 'Royal Signals' started by Funkyman, Nov 5, 2004.

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  1. Having recently left the Corps I now find myself in a postition to be able to talk openly, without fear of reprisals from the management chain, about certain issues that carry on within units.

    I left after 12 years sevice as a SNCO. Prior to leaving I found myself in a position whereby I was unable to defend myself for actions committed against another soldier and I was to blame. The soldier concerened was a JNCO involved in a work related incident with another colleague who happened to be one of my friends. Due to, I beleive, lack of management experaince or training, I found myself on teh end of a posting with 3 days notice for soemthing that I wasn't responsible for. This came to light about a week after I had been "attached" after another SNCO had mentioned he had been using a cup to wash his bike chain in and so it wasn't me trying to poison the JNCO.

    However, through lack of experaince and certainly lack of managerial training I found myself at teh other end of the country 6 weeks prior to my wedding and unable to assit with any of the planning. This was when I signed off. Having your integrety brought into question as a SNCO without being shown the common courtesy of being asked what happpened is outrageous. The OC involved never apologised or showed any remorse in what he did and I find that because of him I left the Army.

    I am not the only one from that unit. To my knowledge there has been at least 5 high calible Sgt's leaving through complete mis-management.

    I am sure that some-one somewhere will come back with "we can't control people balh, blah, blah" however, it is usually these people that give the recommendations for promotion in the first place.

    Now being a happy civvy I can see just how bad some (not all) of the management in the Corps is. I find myself in a position where I am moving up in the world because I am treated properly, encouraged to better myself and not treated like a lepper.

    To that end are there any training courses that rodney's go on to teach them how to be a succesful man - manager and if not why not?

    I was bitter and twisted when I first left but in a way very grateful that the particular person involved treated my in the way he did.

    I am now incredibbly happy, if not a littel worried about the state of current politics affetcting our blokes in the sand-pit.
  2. It's not just a sigs problem IMHO. I often wonder how a lot of officers get on after they leave the army and find that their level of arrogance and poor man management skills leave them jobless.
    In the RLC several years ago we had a spate of officers (at the rank of major mainly) getting their arrses covered being promoted and posted after decimating units due to poor management. I don't know who covers for them, but the system whereby officers of OC rank and above are seen to be above fault should overhauled.
    Anyway, nice to see you are happy as a civvy (as are most ex-army people here, me included) and all the best for the future. Try making a little voodoo doll of your former boss and doing 'things' to it.
  3. Its not just the regular part of the corps, luckily for the TA we have FTRS which tends to attract some of our worst officers.

    That doesn't solve the problems that they've created, we've had many leave because of the OC. Its created a large gap in the rank structure -we've hardly any Cpls or SNCO's), so bad we had one Sgt was doing every SNCO job (SSM, YoS, Trp Staffie etc) on the last couple of weekends/drill nights.
  4. There is management and leadership. An OC requires the correct balance of both in order to do their job correctly.

    Management applies to equipment, objects, rosters, procedures and things.

    Leadership applies to people.

    A good leader will understand their workforce and the individual’s motivation. By harnessing the strengths of individuals their contribution to the team effort can be maximized. A good leader will be able to harness these strengths to maximum effect through the maintenance of high morale and the faith of the soldiers beneath them.

    There are too many officers in the corps who have failed to grasp the fact that a soldier under their command will not respond positively to being managed like an object. They tend to have all the management skills but no leadership ability.

    So maybe we should be criticising the Leadership abilities of today’s officers and not just their managerial skills.
  5. Not wishing to criticise the Corps BUT try the infantry. Within a small battalion (TCH take note) it is much harder for a ******** to hide!

    Also, as junior officers, infantrymen (infantiers are what you find on the sides of infants heads) focus on man-management and tactics. Living and fighting with your men is a priority.

    I'm not claiming we are "cock-free", but you educated blokes in the squigglys tend to focus on the technology and equipment management.

    There are man-management courses for rodneys - its supposed to be called Sandhurst, and every career course they ever do!!!!

    The problem is that the PC tossers have got their own way in recent years as there has been little high intensity conflict requiring large scale deployment and real warfighting. Thus the army has become a standing army more worried about cleaning its kit and saving a buck than it is in breeding warfighting leaders who inspire their men.

    Bring back the cold war What What!!!!

    (The spams got caught out in the same way in the 1950's and suffered for it in Korea (when the ww2 vets had had enough) and Vietnam.)
  6. In reply to Elivislives, I reckon he has hit the nail on the head. That in conjunction with the thread from the infantryman explains the situation. Leaadership or lack of it. The Corps has (did have?) a leadership course. I know this is primarilary aimed at soldiers but may be there should be one for the Rodneys too. The so called "character building stuff" is predominantly set by Rodneys who have never done what is asked of others.

    Examples should be set with reachable standards for all. This would only increase loyalty of the guys which inturn would increase productiveness from all and in turn a top notch working environment which can only be good.

    At present it seems that due to poor leadership and management of the guys they are becoming unfocused because the people that make decissions are amking bad ones. Only a bad manager makes no mistakes, but it is a complete arrse that makes the same mistake twice!!
  7. As others have said there is nowhere to hide in the Inf. The problem with Signals officer is they never really have to lead the men.
    An Inf officer will be on the ground from day one (under guidance,) a Sigs officer pretty much has troop SSgt to carry him through. Let's be honest the average Sigs officer will never really "lead", unless you count the odd exped.
    I know of one officer who has transferred to the Inf as he said he was not able to really be an officer in the Corps.
  8. I'm afraid I can't comment on the specific problems you may (or may not) have in the Bleeps. I would, however, point out that you can't lay all the blame for the wrongs of the Army at the door of officers. Are you suggesting that you don't have any bad JNCOs or SNCOs ? If so, then perhaps you need to take a trip on the reality bus.
  9. Cutaway

    Cutaway LE Reviewer

    Now I might have misunderstood something, but shouldn't the standards be set at a level which to which the Corps demands its offrs and NCOs attain and then it's up to the individual to make the grade, rather than set them 'with reachable standards for all' so every man jack gets through the cse ?
    It sort of negates any value of passing if everyone gets it.

    Let me know if I've missed the point, or that I shouldn't post while drinking. :)
  10. So were you accused of poioning someone Funkyman????

    Sounds a bit extreme. :? :?
  11. As far as I can make out, you are absolving yourself of blame? you were a SNCO!!!
    is not part of your job to stop the problems getting to officers!!

    hello? you must have picked up some man-management skills somewhere along the line(even if you are a tech). were you never a detachment cmdr? never done any courses? it is always easy to blame others for things lacking in ourself, we all do it!! (or is just me?)

    as for standards reachable for all, if they were that means that every tom dick and harriet would be SNCO's after 5 years IMHO. the standards have to get harder to wean out the ones that can't lead or make decisions..
  12. Too many people looking up and not down these days, thats the problem!
  13. Having inside knowledge of this little escapade I have to stickup , suport and agree with funkyman.

    @ canteen_cowboy the point that is IMHO being put on the table is the inablity of some, and not all in command to lead and be objective. Whereever you go and whatever you do there are always good and bad eggs in the basket.

    The unit is small and where the top 3 personalities back each other up and in some instancies lie blatantly to protect themselfs does funkyman not have the rigth of redress even if it is here to get people un-biased opinions!

    IMHO it should have been addressed while he was still a serving member but with the top brass at the unit trying to deal with it within the unit he was unable to do so.

    I personaly have had dealing with the topic of this thread and if i were to go to war with any of them I for sure would shoot them first!
  14. I have the privilage of working with a good OC who employs sound mission command and lets the 2IC get on with EO, it works well.

    It is extremely unfortunate funkyman that you were dealt with in this way. Even if you and others feel you have been left with a bitter taste in your mouth its good to know that your ex colleagues have backed up your statement on this site.

    I am glad you are enjoying civvy street, it is still a daunting thought for all of us waiting to take the jump, willingly or not.

    What I am stating is that not all OCs are bad eggs, there are courses and training in place to ensure that they have the correct understanding of their role and man management procedures. Unfortunately it takes until about Major for most DE officers to become good at it and apply the know how.

    I still believe in the Corps (even thought the paper work is overbearing) and how we try to achieve our aims.

    Take care and good luck
  15. Talking of c**ts, my old OC put his jumper on the wrong way round so had his name tag at the back - yes the twat was wearing a name tag, his pads at the front and his wings on his left arm.

    While he was on parade - yes the tosser was taking a parade, he kept trying to push his pads to the back as he though his sleaves where twisted.

    This is also the same idiot that rode a tandem and fell off it at the back gate in front of the Para Regt guard. Also seen MIA wearing a 'Panto Trained' T-shirt on the piss.

    What a fine statesman. Last seen HQ DSF. Who says crime doesn't pay?