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Management Positions

I read somewhere about how ex officers would get offers of well paid management positions simply cause of the leadership skills they developed in the army. I wondered if anyone else has heard of similar positions and if they think a sergeant/ corporal would also be considered for such a position as they too would have had leadership training
 

RedDinger

Old-Salt
I think it would depend on which industry. I work in Telecomms, and while there are a lot of ex-Forces in the industry, I haven't come across the situation you describe.

I was a Cpl, and am now a manager, but it was by no means an entry position.
 

Nornironman

Old-Salt
Yes, yes it's all true. Just as they told you how much "this training" would cost in civvie street, employers are falling over themselves to welcome you as you are ex services. All you have to do is pop along to any multinational and they'll immediately offer to a £100k contract based on the fact you look great in green and can down 15 pints before getting your knob out.
It's all true. Streets are paved with gold for ex service personnel.

No. Depends on your skills, how you sell yourself same as any other bod out there, you do not have any more advantages than someone with equivalent supervisory or management experience. Often it's the opposite they think you can only follow orders, and have man management skills that consist of shouting a lot. You genrally have to prove yourself all over again.
 

Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
No. Depends.
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
No one really gets “offers of well paid management positions.”

Generally you’d have to be an exceptional candidate that is already known to the company in question, in order to be specifically headhunted and just randomly offered a job.

Well paid management positions are obviously highly sought after, so companies can be picky and choosy with the candidates. You have to apply for them just like everyone else.

You might get the odd generic message on LinkedIn from recruiters but you’d still have to apply and go through the process like everyone else.

Of course having Sandhurst, Dartmouth or Cranwell on your CV looks good, but so does having any other decent management college on there.

For every chinless Tarquin who’s spent 5 years being shit at map reading and relying on his senior NCOs to do the actual management, there is someone with industry specific experience and an MBA.

In my experience (coming up to 14 years mid - senior engineering management in both the public and private sectors), it doesn’t really mean a lot unless it’s specific to the role.

Just watch the apprentice to see how ex officers perform and what Alan Sugar’s opinion is of them.
 

RBMK

LE
Book Reviewer
^ ^ ^ ^
What @Ravers said.

There is a lot of competition for management places and it's as much down to how you come across at interview and how good you are at the job. The employer is looking for transferable skills and the ability to gain the respect of employees.

Civvy street is not like the military, I've seen ex-officers make a total cock-up and get hoofed in short order, and senior NCOs who can't make the transition to civvy employment. Similarly, I've seen both officers and NCOs do very well in civvy street.

Sandhurst or Dartmouth will look good on the CV and may get you an interview, but then you have to deliver.
 
Most of the time, neither officers nor NCOs lead.

Very few companies want or need to recruit leaders per se. They want competent managers who will perform organisational tasks thoroughly, with little fuss, while making the person who hired them look good.

Like civilians, soldiers of all descriptions are able to do this to varying degrees.

Nearly all Army officers who work in leadership consultancies on the back of their military experience are either natural bullshitters, or - more likely - forced to peddle bullshit while desperately trying to find a proper job.
 
Without considerable other material to help you stand out, Dartmouth or Sandhurst on your CV means you are slightly unimaginative but probably trustworthy, reasonably intelligent & hard-working & own at least one decent suit. No more, no less.
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
After around 20 years or so in executive-level posts in technology after a moderately undistinguished 22-year Army career which saw me topping out as a SNCO - and having seen a succession of OF4+ crash and burn on first exposure to civilian life - I'd very much echo what @Charlie_Cong says. The requirements for leadership in civilian life are pretty scant, generally folk look for someone who can deliver management as a service to the people who do the work, in a way and at a cost which is acceptable to the employer.

Ex-military folk represent something of a risk for an employer, whatever rank they might have had and quite a considerable number of potential employers, especially those in fields not rich in ex-Service folk, are leery of us. Quite rightly too, when you consider what a social hand grenade an ex-soldier or officer often is.
 
I think it depends on which sector you end up in also.Ive had 3 jobs since leaving the mob. In 2 of them, management consisted mainly of people who had simply been there the longest, often requiring underlings to cover for their incompetence. Pointing out flaws in anything, or identifying anything that could be improved but - would require a bit of work from them-was unwelcome.
Some people think 'management' is just wearing pointy shoes and an Asda suit.
 
After around 20 years or so in executive-level posts in technology after a moderately undistinguished 22-year Army career which saw me topping out as a SNCO - and having seen a succession of OF4+ crash and burn on first exposure to civilian life -

That's strange, because more than a few of them on here (and real life) think that civvie street is going to throw them a well paid job if the MOD ever cuts CEA and they leave.
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
That's strange, because more than a few of them on here (and real life) think that civvie street is going to throw them a well paid job if the MOD ever cuts CEA and they leave.
Don't get me wrong, I've seen many OF4+ do very well, as well - it's the person, not the cap badge or the track record, which makes a success. Generally, the softer the skillset, the better the post-Service performance.
 
I read somewhere about how ex officers would get offers of well paid management positions simply cause of the leadership skills they developed in the army. I wondered if anyone else has heard of similar positions and if they think a sergeant/ corporal would also be considered for such a position as they too would have had leadership training
Leadership is only one aspect that companies are looking for. Highly numerate and highly literate individuals do well, especially if they can project manage. I've seen ex JNCOs as Senior Vice Presidents within the financial services industry or as Principal Consultants within consulting within a few years of leaving the services; similarly I've seen senior officers (Lt Col equiv and above) spectacularly fail. Certainly, many industries and professions welcome ex SP - especially officers, but not exclusively so - and for those leaving, keep an eye on the CTP events hosted by industries, and for officer, the OA website is particularly useful for really interesting jobs (Corporate Intelligence, Foreign Contracts, Royal Household, Clerks of Livery companies etc).

Even compared with a few years ago, there is a wide recognition of the skills that all military service gives, and a lot of the prejudices towards SP (violence, drunkenness, shouty etc) have slowly evaporated
 
On leaving the army after 23 years i called in at a small recruiting agency run by an ex WO1 in Brum. As i was leaving in came a very old friend who had retired a a major LE about 2 years previously . long story short went down the pub, he was a regional manager for a big big security company, offered me a job as operations manager on a big W. Midlands contract.

Underwent 6 weeks company management course in darkest Surrey surrounded by the biggest bunch of weak, indecisive back stabbing crunts i have ever met.

Started on the contract v. good money, 2litre car, incentive scheme and family medical insurance , my only direct boss was the major, who was still in his QM grumpy mode but basically wanted a quiet life and let me get on with it,

After 2 years every thing changed, the top dogs in the company had originally all been senior officers RN and Army, one 1*. Out of no where we were bought out by a group of money men, all the top dogs walked away with bulging pockets.

It was decided that the 6 weeks management courses we attended were not of use, i was offered a new position as a security officer on a gate having been the boss of over 400 people i considered the offer very seriously as you would.

A fine example of management by big business, sod the individual , get the assets stripped ASP and move on. i had a nice £££££ package as compensation, and enjoyed a 12 month freeby with car which no one had asked to be returned.
 
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It’s all very subjective. The individual, the individual’s service, the company, the role, the team the role is in.

I can’t speak for the other services, but the Army instills both management and leadership skills. But at different levels. For example, a platoon sgt in the infantry is expected to guide the platoon commander and show leadership. In a technical corps, the SNCOs really run the shop. They are managing more than leading, however.

In civvy world, the requirement for leaders is at the C-Level. If the CTO of a large company gets it wrong and leads the company down a technological dead-end, they have seriously stuffed up. But if they get it right, they have done it right. If the CEO re-orgs and thins out the deadwood, that’s either going to succeed and be more efficient, or perhaps thin out all his corporate knowledge and then they have to re-learn everything. That’s leadership again.

But below C-Level, it’s more management than leadership. C-Level sets the objectives, below that organizes the resources to meet those objectives. Then again on my team (not C-Level), we have 6 guys and one of us is boss (not me). We all work in isolation from each other, and he just “leads the team”. None of our work output affects anyone else on our team, we provide consultancy to other parts of the business, effectively. We don’t manage or lead anything or anyone, but that’s not to say the people on our team are junior.

It’s all very subjective :)
 
No one really gets “offers of well paid management positions.”

Generally you’d have to be an exceptional candidate that is already known to the company in question, in order to be specifically headhunted and just randomly offered a job.

Well paid management positions are obviously highly sought after, so companies can be picky and choosy with the candidates. You have to apply for them just like everyone else.

You might get the odd generic message on LinkedIn from recruiters but you’d still have to apply and go through the process like everyone else.

Of course having Sandhurst, Dartmouth or Cranwell on your CV looks good, but so does having any other decent management college on there.

For every chinless Tarquin who’s spent 5 years being shit at map reading and relying on his senior NCOs to do the actual management, there is someone with industry specific experience and an MBA.

In my experience (coming up to 14 years mid - senior engineering management in both the public and private sectors), it doesn’t really mean a lot unless it’s specific to the role.

Just watch the apprentice to see how ex officers perform and what Alan Sugar’s opinion is of them.

Who can forget Paul Callaghan and the catering-sized baked bean tin and tea light?
 
I read somewhere about how ex officers would get offers of well paid management positions simply cause of the leadership skills they developed in the army. I wondered if anyone else has heard of similar positions and if they think a sergeant/ corporal would also be considered for such a position as they too would have had leadership training

I had a Signals full Colonel, a tankie Captain and an Air Vice Marshall working for me a few years ago.

AVM was top value. Colonel was absolutely useless and the tankie drank a lot (as did the AVM) which was his redeeming feature. They all had the same job title which provided me with hours of endless fun as they had no means of calibrating authority.

The AVM was excellent. The other two let the finest service arm down badly.

I was a private soldier in my youth but no-one held it against me.

The AVM turned up to his interview with me and we were wearing matching suits, brogues and shirt and he told me at the end of his interview 'he liked me was willing to work for me'.

The funniest one was the interview of the colonel - he looked at my tie and said 'Fusilier?' - No I said 'XXXX XXXXXXX'. Later that day the Chairman looked at my tie and said 'Marlboro Cricket Club?' to which I replied 'no - Royal Fusiliers'.

Their rank got them in. To a greater of lesser extent, I have to say they were for the most part fcuking useless. We did get pissed an awful lot tat lunchtime though
 
I'm lucky enough to be in a fairly senior role nowadays. When meeting with clients my company like to emphasis my Military background as a big plus (I totally agree ;-) ). If the client is ex Mil and they ask what cap badge I was then I know we'll get on. If they ask what rank I was then I know we won't.
 
Thank you for all the responses , theyve been a lot of help and have decided it would probably be beneficial for me to study for a degree part time whilst in the forces.
 

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