Mall Security Tradecraft

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Not_Whistlin_Dixie, Dec 23, 2005.

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  1. Threads saved from GlockTalk, a firearms BBS.

    Some of you "tactical" guys can get some good tips here.

    Junior Member posted 07-17-2000 15:47
    hello friends,
    Last year I made the decision to trust
    my life on the street to Second Chance body
    armor. I got the level IIa because it stops
    the most rounds. plus I got the Trauma Plate
    for the front.

    What scares me is that, although I can fit an extra trauma plate in the front, I cannot fit a second one in back. As of late I have taken to duct-taping a second trauma plate to the area of my back where the heart and vital organs are located. Then I put my vest on.

    Here is the questions. The ducttape "solution, although tactically sound, is hot and painful to remove. I would like to go
    to the single-plate solution in back. What I am worried about is repeated hits to that area with .308 ammunition. I have a high-risk security job and I fear that I would be the target for repeated long-distance shots to my back.

    Are any of you aware of a thicker plate that could stop, say, .338 Lapua or something like that? Is there a better way to do the second plate?

    BTW, I am, of course, usually carrying a pair of ceramic plates in my briefcase so that I can shield my head. My SO
    ["significant other"] (we work as a team when necessary) has a similar accessory containing a breakdown NEF [New England Firearms] single-shot 300 WinMag with an 18" bbl. The plan is that I shield us with my body and "catch the rounds" while she assembles the NEF. I lay down covering fire with my 23 (Bar-Sto .357 Sig barrel) and she makes the long shots. I will then throw smoke grenades to obscure the area while continuing to lay covering fire. The problem, of course, is when I have to turn my back to run, and then the problem crops up.



    Junior Member


    It's okay for me to talk about my job, as long as I'm not specific. I am the Sergeant of a three-man Rapid Tactical Force at one of America's largest indoor retail shopping areas. Although there are typically between fifteen and twenty normal security officers working the beat there, we decided a while ago that it would be best to have a specilized force for violent individuals. We use modified electric vehicles and can be anywhere on a given floor within eight and a half minutes.

    Naturally, the regular security people are unarmed. We "RTFers", by arrangement with the local police, carry high-strength OC spray and batons. If we have a full tactical alert and permission from the local LEOs we also have a Mossberg 500 with less-lethal rounds and two K-frame Smith .38s loaded with 158gr. LRN.

    Basically, the situation is that we get the call, we lock up the situation, put everything five by five, and cordon the area until the local authorities arrive. We're cops, we just don't get the glory.

    I am not permitted to carry Glocks on duty; however, when my wife picks me up from work I strap on the "Deadly Duo" of a 27 and 23, each with Bar-Sto .357 bbl.

    I am writing a proposal to replace our current Mossberg/Smith armament with the following:

    3) MP5K-PDW with red-dot sights;
    2) G36 rifles using SS109 rounds;
    3) Glock practical tacticles in .357 Sig
    1) PSG-1 using Fed Gold Medal .308
    1) Starlight scope for the PSG-1 in case we
    lose power in the building.
    3) Glock 27 backup guns
    3) Kahr P-9 holdouts


    Junior Member posted 07-19-2000 16:47
    I do not understand the "joke" or the "Rambo." I am in a high-risk job. It is not the Mall of America, but Ill tell you what its no podunk mall either.
    I am a responsible citizen who has made the choice to carry at all times. I defend others. If something happens at the Mall then I would be the hero, not those of you who are making fun of me for no reason. Yes Im not a Green Beret but guess what neither are you and unlike you I have to face unruly shoppers every day.

    My REAL problem is that, like any LEO, I have enemies because of my job. They may have access to high-powered rifles. My job starts and ends at the same time every day. Although I use four rotating routes to drive to and from work, I am still vulnerable during the walk to and from my car. This is the time that I load up on the trauma plates because I DO NOT WANT TO BE SHOT DEAD!

    Also, someone said that my Tac Team doesn't get training. Not true. We meet at the range every night and shoot 400 rounds each through weapons that closely resemble our duty setup. We also practice unarmed combat. I am a Master of three martial arts including ninjitsu, which means I can wear the special boots to climb walls. I don't think any of you are working as hard as I am to be prepared. I asked a serious question about tactical armor and I wanted a serious response. If you want to laugh at somebody, try laughing at the sheep out there who go to the mall unarmed trusting in me to stand guiard over their lives like a God.
  2. msr

    msr LE

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

  3. ^Wah!!!
  4. After reading the above quotes I am so glad I do not live in America!!!!

    Quite frankly.... scarey.
  5. Are you sure this shouldn't have gone into the walt thread?
  6. I believe that Mr. Gecko_45, who also calls himself SPECOPS, is taking the urine, as you gents would say, out of his interlocutors.

    I haven't yet been to a shopping mall where the rent-a-cops used full-auto and crew-served weapons but maybe I haven't been looking hard enough.

    We were previuosly restricted to .38's and two Mossberg 500's with less leathel rounds in them, but when our team saved the life and possibly the virginity of the Mayor's nephew, there was a special relaxation of the rules made for us, due to the factt that the nepheew(who will remain nameless to rpevent a scandal) was saved by us using weapons better than our issue setup, so now we have good funding for gear for our jobs, and we needed to find relaible SMG's, but the HK's just wouldn't cut it.

    Whadda guy!
  7. This thread belongs in th NAFFI; I just swamped myself and had a follow through..when is the reality show planned to air will get rid of the "Dog the Bounty Hunter" crap in short order? :D
  8. "...trusting in me to stand guard over their lives like a God."

    And we have our complex.. :lol:
  9. The phrase "Mall Ninja" has well established itself into the American Firearms Culture by now. I guess it's the local version of 'Walt'

    A similar one, for servicemen or non-servicemen who exaggerate their status, is 'Space Shuttle Door Gunner'

  10. This bloke sacres the sh!t out of me. I will never go to the States again. The really sad thing is that this bloke really belives that when he is stagging on outside Macys that he is going to come under sustained and accurate 7.62 fire....! I mean have a word fella!
  11. I think you're being unfair - he has to face those unruly shoppers every day - not you.

    How can any of us know the kind of potential contacts that brings?
  12. The unruly shoppers are going to be firing .338 Lapua sniper calibre ! in a sustained firefight for longer than eight and a half minutes!

    The Unruly shoppers are considering setting up a sniper position to take him out as he arrives in his car.

    Part of his "actions on" is to use his body as a sandbag whilst his wifey puts the rifle together.

    His plan to get out of the killing zone has seven stages, that involve buying coffee and donuts.

    He carries smoke grenades as a security guard.

    Are paranoics allowed to carry guns in the US? I think so.
  13. The poor guy was about to get his end away you bast@rd!
  14. Indeed.

    SPECOPS gives us a glimpse of his world.

    Yes we do have armored vehicles Lucy. We have armored GMC Yukons and Suburbans for executive protection. We have several Hummers with MG mounts for our two HK21Es, and two VERY special armored vehicles for more serious work, here's a hint, the US Marine Corp has a 2 less in their inventory now.

    We have been faced with several BGs with Anti-armor weapons. Usually it's just surplus RPG7s but occationally something a bit more potent, like AT4s and one incident with a TowII.

    Funny that you mention the Chechin rebels. We don't have to deal with them, but we get a lot of heat from the Russian mofia. Those guys are bada$$es, former Spetsnaz and KGB that are out of work and pissed off.

    Gecko45 replied:

    SPECOPS, I am considering a transfer to a line of work that is much less boring, and the equipment and the opponents you have listed intrigues me. I would like to visit your corporation's facility, and view your training grounds. The whole mall gig is getting old, and I feel less and less appreciated at our retail center. What I am trying to say is, does your corportation have room for a few good men? Another fearless crusader, to watch over the safety of the halfwitted masses? I believe that my tac-team may be able to continue without me, I hate to leave them at the mercy of the skinheaded "heil Hitler" crowd, but that op will be finished out of my juris diction one way or the other. The NYPD has dealt with the Crips long enough, they should be able to keep their heads above surface should I cease my endless pursuit of them, but I just have to wonder if working ops on a traveling freelance basis once again wouldn't be just the thing to rejuvanate my career.

    I wonder....

    But then again I think of the mayors nephew, his face distored with tears and terror, the GAP employees who asked for my autograph, and had to settle for a cover identity's signature, the flashbangs, and their acrid scent, the small of napalm in the evening breeze, as I crouch behind a shopping cart in the parking lot, the target practice with my dearest comrades and friends, the members of my teams, and our live fire exercises-Can I leave it all behind? should I?

    Or is my life better spent as the silent, alert, stalwart, invisible guardian of the free mall...

    I cannot tell.
  15. SPECOPS replies:

    Gecko45 that is a very difficult decision to make. I was faced with the same situation years ago...
    I was working for a smaller security organization, me were regularily rotated between 4 stations. A local Food City supermarket was designated Sector Alpha-Niner, the Jiffy Lube was Bravo-Lima-Fiver, the local $1 movie theater was Golf-16 and finally, the most coveted assignment, the local mall or Zebra-1.

    Back then, before the corporate sponsorship, our gear was severely limited due to out of pocket expenses. I was armed with a Glock17 (one of the first into the country, given to me by Gaston Glock personally in honor of my former black-ops experiences) and a Rem870P 14"bbl folder loaded with 000 magnums.

    On this particular fateful day my team was assigned to patrol Sector Zebra-1, the mall. It was an uneventful day, until the unthinkable happened...

    It was about 8:45PM, and the mall was closing and nearly empty. Me and my 'shadow' were sweeping quadrant 069E, the mall arcade, a known hotspot for Asian Gangs and assorted thugs. The arcade was located at the far east end of the mall, next to the movie theater and the orange julius.

    I smelled trouble, and couldn't spot any movement from the arcade, which was unusual due to the presence of a new Mortal Compact arcade game. Those Asians Gangs love Mortal Combat.

    I went to 'condition red,' and discretely unholstered my Glock17 loaded with Black Talons. I motioned to my partner to sweep right to flank the arcade, but he was already in motion sensing the trouble in my facial expression. My partner drew his S&W 1006 and went prone behind a potted palm tree.

    I crept towards the arcade, when the power went out. It was an ambush! I could still see relatively well due to the full moon, shining through the building's skylights, and years in a dark secret Russian prison center had honed my natural night vision to that of a tomcat.

    A perp popped up from behind the Orange Julius counter with a full auto Kalashnikov with a 75rd drum, and opened up in the direction of my partner, meanwhile two perps popped up from behind the skeeball machine with sawed off 12 gauges. Another two perps appeared on the upper level and brought down hell-fire on us from above. One had a Winchester Model 70 in .30-06 with a 10x scope and the other was laying down suppressive fire with a Mac10 variant. The perps were all sporting cheap russian NVGs.

    I dove under a metal bench, and lined my sights on the AK bandit. A double-tap to the chest, and a quick follow-up to the head brought him down like a sack of potatos. My partner had been hit in the leg by some buckshot but he kept fighting like a champ, he took out one of the shotgunners with a 10mm hollowpoint to the temple, while I started unloading into the glass partition that surrounded the upper level. When the sniper ran for cover I drew a bead on him, adjusted for distance, and dropped two into his abdomen. The Mac-man ran for it, at the sight of the bloody guts pouring out his partner's stomach.

    I did a quick tactical reload, grabbed the 870P from the harness on my back, and did some rolls over to the movie theater and back flipped over the concession counter while unloading the 5 rounds of 000 into the skeeball machine. My partner was pinned down, I tossed the empty 870, and realized I couldn't hit the remaining perp due to my the poor angle of attack. I had to act fast or my partner was done for. I leap over the counter again, and low crawled towards the arcade unseen. I crept behind the Mrs. PacMan game, and when I heard the perp reload, jumped up with my trusty K-Bar, and threw it into the perp's arm, pinning him against the wall behind him.

    When the smoke cleared, we had three dead perps, and two very scared prisoners. My partner was slighting wounded but he would live to fight another dayl. The company goons came in fast by chopper, to cover up the situation. The remaining perps were flown to a company detention center, and we never found out what happened to them, or why they made such a vicious attack. My belief is that they were planning to hijack the coveted Mortal Combat game unit.

    The remaining customers and employees were paid off to cover their emotional distress and to keep their mouths shut. Later an unknown shadowy figure in an expensive black suit (obviously a high ranking company guy) came to me as I was reloading my Rem870 (in case of a second wave of attackers) and offered me the job opportunity of a lifetime...

    I don't know if I made the right decision that day. I will always fondly remember the days of mall security, the expressions on the thankful patrons you saved from certain molestation in the mall bathrooms. The look of pain in the drooling face of the shoplifter you just choke-holded to unconciousness.

    Yes my new job is more exotic and the gear is better, but would I trade it all for one more day as a mall security rep? I don't know the answer to that question.

    Gecko45, just remember, you always have a place available with my company. No matter what you choose...

    Stay safe brother...