Malaysia Medal (PLM) rejected by HMG. (House of lords)

#1
Letter to (House of Lords) because Baroness Symons rejects Malaysia Medal (PLM) for HMG, when both Australia & New Zealand have accepted the medal.

CC  Lord Chadlington   (House of Lords.)
 
From:  Ex-serviceman and Member of ( National Malaya Borneo Veterans Association)   (Name and address supplied)
 
 
To: Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean  
House of Lords London SW1A OAA         Date:  21 January 2005
 
Dear Baroness Symons,
 
Having read  “Lord Hansard text for 11 January 2005 (2050111w03)” regards “Service Medals” I was totally aghast at your reply to Lord Lord Chadlington when he questioned HMG   “Whether present or former eligible members of Her Majesty's forces will be entitled to wear the medal recently awarded by the government of Malaysia to all Commonwealth ex-servicemen who served in either the emergency or the confrontation between 1957 and 1966. [HL582]  
 
This was your reply Baroness Symons :  “No. HMG's rules on the acceptance and wearing of foreign awards preclude the acceptance of medals for events in the distant past or more than five years previously. In addition, the rules do not allow for a foreign award to be accepted if a British award has been given for the same service. Eligible veterans of the Emergency or Confrontation in Malaya should already have received the Malaya Bar to their General Service Medal.”  
 
I wish to ask you, if the above rules apply, why did HMG allow servicemen in the 1991 Iraq war accept two foreign medals (Kuwait & Saudi Arabia Medals) when they had already been awarded a British award?  
 
Baroness Symons, how would you (or all your academic friends  in the MOD or HMG) like to be told because you have been awarded  PHD at Cambridge you are not intitled to accept an honoury award from any other foreign University because you already had a British award?
 
Baroness Symons you went on to say:
 
 “All British citizens require permission from HMG to accept and wear foreign state awards. HMG have to date, received no request from the Malaysian Government for this medal to be presented to British ex-servicemen who are veterans of the Emergency or Confrontation in Malaya.”  
 
Baroness, You would agree, before permission is given there first has to be an offer. Yet you say there was no offer.  This I find hard to understand that the Malaysian Government would only offer this award to  the Australian and New Zealand Governments who have both accepted. Yet at the same time the British Government were not offered the award when  the greater percentage of servicemen who served in Malaya-Borneo from 1957 to 1966 were all British?
 
Finally, I wonder did your daddy  ever serve in HM armed forces in Malaya or Borneo when you were a little girl  before you attended Putney High School?
 
If he did, do you think he would be proud of your actions over this matter?
 
 
Yours sincerely
 
Proper Name given in letter.
 
All comments welcome
Trueseeker
 
#2
Enclosed is evidence that both the Australian and the New Zealand Governments have both accepted this new medal from the Malaysian Government and Tony Blair's government has rejected it.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/07/17/blair.transcript/

http://www.navalassoc.org.au/Navy_Defence News Malaysian Medal26 Nov04.htm

Tony Blair certainly knows how to snubb other commonwealth countries and British ex-servicemen yet he can accept the following foreign award himself.

"And let me begin by thanking you most sincerely for voting to award me the Congressional Gold Medal."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/07/17/blair.transcript/

Trueseeker






http://1rnzir1964.bravepages.com/
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#3
I could be wrong, but don't we have to seek Her Maj's permission to wear foriegn medals not her Governments. I know that in effect its the same but its the principle that matters, like swearing allegience to HM not that shower of creeps currently in power.

Mind you I would not expect Pres B liar and his cohorts to understand that.
 
#4
Kipling sounds great Sknn, and I agree with you 100%

But the reality is different. HM Queen could not authorise Blair's government to accept the Malaysian Government's kind offer of this new medaal, even if she wanted to. We have a constitutional Monarchy. The Queen has to rubber stamp laws (like the hunting bill) against the will of all her family and friends, whether she likes it or not.

That *shower of creeps* and Baroness Symons is one of them, are treating ex-servicemen who served their country in Malaya & Borneo 1950/60's like second class citizens. In the mean time Blair is having afternoon tea with IRA bank robbers in chequers.

Trueseeker
 
#5
Sad that veterans of the Malaya and Borneo campaigns will not be allowed to receive the medal from the Malaysian government.

I recall several former soldiers and officers wearing medals they received from the Sultan of Brunei following peace time attachments to the Sultan's army.
 
#6
Sknn,

Enjoyed the Kipling poem. here's another one of his.

Trueseeker


When first under fire an' you're wishful to duck
Dont look nor take 'eed at the man that is struck
Be thankful you're living, and trust to your luck,
And march to your front like a soldier.

If your officer's dead and the sergeants look white
Remember it's ruin to run from a fight,
So take open order,lie down and sit tight,
And wait for supports like a soldier...

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll up your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier..

Rudyard Kipling.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#7
I say put them up if you can get them from Malaysian Govt. perhaps all the old and bold ex National Servicemen and regulars need to write to the Legion, their MP (god help us) and the Malaysian Ambassador detailing their service and in the case of the MP pointing out that they had to go where they were told to as thats how it worked then and a s a Politician he holds corporate responsibility for recognising this service. The malaysian Ambassador must be approached with a view to allowing ex service mans organisations to present a list of proposed recipients. Circumvent the Govt. They didnt go so why even involve them.

OOps rant over!
 
#8
Baroness Symons said: :  “No. HMG's rules on the acceptance and wearing of foreign awards preclude the acceptance of medals for events in the distant past or more than ** five** years"

The Baroness has cunningly used a (Five year) law with regards British respective Awards to reject the Malaysian medal on behalf of HMG. There is no mention in this MOD website that the five year clause has anything to do with foreign awards.

Retrospective Awards
"Since the end of World War II, the HD Committee has maintained a policy that it will not consider the belated institution of awards and medals for service given many years earlier. The reason for this policy is that the present HD Committee cannot put itself in the place of the Committee which made the original decision and which would have been able to take account of the views of the Government and of other interested parties at the time of the decision. The HD Committee has made it clear on a number of occasions in response to requests for the institution of belated awards that it will not reconsider this policy. Although the Committee usually conducts its business by post and electronically, they did meet in February 2002 to discuss their policy of non-retrospection. They concluded that they would hold to their line and not reconsider cases that took place more than five years ago."
http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/medals_folder/medals_medal_instituted.htm

Likewise the Malaysian medal was only awarded in 2004. I would like to ask the Baroness how does it not come under the five year clause for British medals?

Trueseeker
 
#10
Didn't the French give the Croix de Guerre to all the remaining survivors of WW1 a few years ago? Seem to remember local news showing some very old veteran receiving his.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#11
Member of the house of lords but no direct e mail or website. never done a days work either according to her biog. Dumb cow should be made to go to the malayan jungle in the buff.
 
#13
"Didn't the French give the Croix de Guerre to all the remaining survivors of WW1 a few years ago? Seem to remember local news showing some very old veteran receiving his."

Exactly, what about this Suez gong in this MOD website:

http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/medals_folder/medals_suez_canal2.htm

In one breath Baroness Symons says ex-servicemen cant have the Malaysian medal to commemorate Malaya Borneo 1957-1966. because of this five year clause. And in another breath the MOD give approval for a Suez Canal Zone 1951 -1954 medal.

The Baroness is talking out of her rear end.

Trueseeker
 
#15
Hi All,

Enclosed is more proof Baroness Symons may not have been telling the whole truth when she said "HMG have to date, received no request from the Malaysian Government for this medal to be presented to British ex-servicemen who are veterans of the Emergency or Confrontation in Malaya." in the House of Lords.
 
For those interested open this website and go to Letters & e/mails section.
 
http://www.nmbva.co.uk/
 
Half way down  there is a letter  from the  
 
Office of Defense Advisor For Malaysia"  
 
(reference No PP/ AI 10
 
dated  4 July 2004.
 
It states the following.
 
1.  Reference to your letter/mail dated July 2004, I have the honour to inform you that the malaysian Government have approved to award Commemorative medal (PJM) only to those Commonwealth Forces who have served in Malaya/Malaysia from 31st August 1957 until the end of Confrontation  the 12th of August 1966.
 
2. It is up to the individual government of those countries involved to come up with the list of those who are eligible for the award base on their service record. This award will include civil servant, the armed forces personel and police.
 
Thank you
Abdullah  Yatim
Col Defence Adviser
 
One question needs answered?  Does anyone really believe the Malaysian Government would offer this medal (PJM) to all other commonwealth countries and leave UK out? When history tells us British forces made up the greater percentage of all the military involved in Malaya/Borneo 1957/1966?
 
 
Trueseeker
 
#16
On behalf of HMG, Baroness Symons said the following in the House of Lords:  "the rules do not allow for a foreign award to be accepted if a British award has been given for the same service. Eligible veterans of the Emergency or Confrontation in Malaya should already have received the Malaya Bar to their General Service Medal." as an excuse for HMG rejecting the Malaysian (PJM). I would like to point out HMG not only accepted the Kuwait and Saudi Arabia (FOREIGN) medals on top of the Imperial medal awarded in the 1991 Iraq war?  Throughout British military history foreign medals have been accepted on top of Imperial awards. The following two foreign medals were accepted by previous HMG's in the 19th century.  
 
No1) The Ghunzee medal 1839.  This medal was struck on orders by the Shah of Afghanistan in 1839 to show his appreciation to the British forces that had restored him to his throne.  This foreign medal was a second issued to the imperial CANDAHAR, CABUL & GHUZNEE MEDALS 1842-43
 
No 2) TURKISH CRIMEAN WAR MEDAL 1854-56
The Sultan of Turkey issued this medal to allied military personnel involved in the Crimean war. Likewise  a second foreign medal to the Imperial Crimean War Medal 1854-56
 
These foreign medals can be seen here if interested
http://www.britishmilitarymedals.co.uk/index2.htm  
 
Trueseeker
 
#17
Positive news: I hope the Conseratives and Lib-dems come onboard and support the Unionists MP's here and embarrass Tony blairs government into accepting the PJM medal.
 
House of Commons     Session 2004-05
 
 
House of Commons  
Thursday 3 March 2005
Notices of Motions for which no days have been fixed
(‘Early Day Motions’)
 
 
784     AWARD OF PINGAT JASA MALAYSIA MEDAL
       
 24:2:05
 
 
 Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson  
 Mr Gregory Campbell  
 Mr Nigel Dodds  
 The Reverend Martin Smyth  
 David Burnside  
AndrewMackinlay              
 
  Paul Flynn     Dr Vincent Cable   Mr Brian Jenkins  
 
    That this House notes the announcement by the Malaysian Government that it wishes to award the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal to all Commonwealth ex-service personnel who served in either the Emergency or the Confrontation in that country between 1957 and 1966; recalls that a number of British Army regiments, including the Royal Ulster Rifles, served in Borneo during that period together with other elements of the United Kingdom Armed Forces; further notes the decision of the Australian Government to accept the award of this medal for its ex-service personnel; and calls on Her Majesty's Government to enter into discussions with the Malaysian Government to ensure that those British ex-service personnel who qualify for the award of the Pingat Jasa Malaysia Medal should receive this just recognition of their valiant service to the Crown and the people of Malaysia.  
 
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#19
The letter in the original post states 'between 57 and 66'. My Dad was out there in between 53 and 55 . I've got plenty of old 'box brownie' photos of him with his 'Patchett' gun (Aussie version of the Sten but the magazine went in at the top not the side) and of him posing with dead terrorists, but I've never seen any medals. To be honest, it was something which never came up in conversation. Both he and my Mum are now dead and I've no idea if he ever recieved one. Was there a medal avaiable pre 57? Or is it a case that nobody got one full stop.
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#20
Biscuits_AB said:
The letter in the original post states 'between 57 and 66'. My Dad was out there in between 53 and 55 . I've got plenty of old 'box brownie' photos of him with his 'Patchett' gun (Aussie version of the Sten but the magazine went in at the top not the side) and of him posing with dead terrorists, but I've never seen any medals. To be honest, it was something which never came up in conversation. Both he and my Mum are now dead and I've no idea if he ever recieved one. Was there a medal avaiable pre 57? Or is it a case that nobody got one full stop.
Biscuits, the 'Patchett Gun' was basically a Sterling SMG. You're thinking of the Owen which was an Aussie-made SMG with a top mounted magazine. A lot of Aussies and Brits claim the Owen as one of the most reliable SMGs ever made.
 

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