"Makes the Patriot Act look like a JCR motion"

#1
No, we're not talking about Patriot Act II, or anything else that might be
going on in the US. What we're talking about is powers far in excess of
what the US govt could grant itself, due to their constitutional
safeguards. We're talking about the innocuous-sounding Civil
Contingencies Bill, from Britain. This was slipped under the radar at the
same time as the 2nd reading of the foxhunting bill (why do you think they
pushed the foxhunting bill so hard and with such media coverage?), and
will give the incumbent government the power to amend and revoke any
statute (except the relevant clause of the CCB permitting this, of
course...) by fiat (including the Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights, i.e.
the British constitutional statutes), in the event of an "emergency", the
definition of which is sooooo subjective that Mr Blair stubbing his toe
could be deemed to be one... "Lord Lucas has described the Civil
Contingencies Bill as comparable to Hitler's Enabling Act of 1933 which
enabled him to transform Germany's Weimar Republic into his own personal
tyranny. I have now read it, and I have to say that he is not
exaggerating."

http://www.iainmurray.org/MT/archives/000898.html
 
#2
Nothing and I do mean nothing surprises me anymore from this government :evil:

Where were the opposition when all this was going on :roll:

Where were the usually vocal but totally useless Lib-Dems :roll:

I suppose his black book contains all our names now 8O
 
#3
stoatman said:
We're talking about the innocuous-sounding Civil
Contingencies Bill, from Britain.
Well spotted Stoatman. People (sheeple) really don't think the government in Britain can be nasty. Well how wrong they are.
There's an interesting docu series coming to BBC2 this Wednesday at 21.00 called the Power of Nightmares which I think (hope) will make sheeple think a bit harder about why they're agreeing to give up our hard won freedoms.

I suspect we'll soon have Parliamentary committee's set up to 'Review Public Service Broadcasting in the UK' Upshot of which will be - do away with licence, sell off to industry (ie Johny Foreigner). Then the sheeple can watch more mind numbing soaps and reality shows. We'll have no more of this questioning us poli's lark

They may call themselves New Labour but in fact they're just Old Commies with spin. Control freaks the lot of 'em. .
 
#4
A few people have continued to say this bill has taken all the most brutal aspects of ministration of a nation and imposed them.

The system of due process and the legal ramifications as well as the imposition of a diplock jury on main land Britain is monstrous.

We are increasing a power that is open to so much abuse it will resound for many, many generations.

1933? I think we're more like 1937 at the moment. This government just evoked the parliament act to push a bill through that was, as you say a smoke screen to cover the real issue of control of the masses, and make no mistake that is what this bill is in it's purest form.
 
#6
hup-two-three said:
Well spotted Stoatman. People (sheeple) really don't think the government in Britain can be nasty. Well how wrong they are.
There's an interesting docu series coming to BBC2 this Wednesday at 21.00 called the Power of Nightmares which I think (hope) will make sheeple think a bit harder about why they're agreeing to give up our hard won freedoms.
Part of the problem is that we have not had a really malicious government in this country since Cromwell. This has lulled everybody (including HM Govt) into believing that British govts will always be benign, therefore there is no need to incorporate safeguards in the legislation. However, since absolute power corrupts absolutely, once this bill has passed, it will be used. One of my pet conspracy theories at the moment is that once the fox hunting bill has served its purpose to get this bill under the radar, the civil unrest it will cause in the countryside will be used as an excuse to declare the "state of emergency" required to invoke the CCB.

It has been shown that ordinary people with absolute power abuse it (read up on the Stanford Prison experiment), so I believe that this bill is unbelievably dangerous, particularly in the hands of El Presidente and David (Beria) Blunkett. If it /is/ used to install El Presidente as Presidente for Life, only 155 grains will save us...
 
#7
Why is the nothing on the BBC website about this bill........ :roll: ......silly me! They have been subdued by TBliar and his farcical inquests.

Where are the other newspapaers? Why are they not leading with this?

I am definetly emmigrating....if anybody will have me that is :wink:
 
#8
dui-lai said:
I am definetly emmigrating....if anybody will have me that is :wink:
Where you educated prior to the change to the system that is now frowned upon in nations that used to headhunt in this country?
Because I doubt many of our children will be head hunted or have qualifications that other nations will be vying to grab up...
 
#9
Hmmm, I wonder if large scale civil disobedience by a public unhappy with the imposition of a compulsory ID card would qualify as a good excuse to try out these wonderful new powers?

Just thinking out loud... GULP 8O
 
#10
That's not the only thing that slipped under the radar

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200304/ldbills/110/2004110.htm


However, this is the latest version of the CC bill

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200304/ldbills/077/04077.i-iv.html


In particular, emergency regulations may make any provision which the


person making the regulations thinks is for the purpose of—


(a)
protecting human life, health or safety,


(b)
treating human illness or injury,


(c)
protecting or restoring property,


(d)
protecting or restoring a supply of money, food, water, energy or fuel,


(e)
protecting or restoring an electronic or other system of communication,

15

(f)
protecting or restoring facilities for transport,


(g)
protecting or restoring the provision of services relating to health,


(h)
protecting or restoring the activities of banks or other financial
institutions,


(i)
preventing, containing or reducing the contamination of land, water or
air,


(j)
preventing, or mitigating the effects of, flooding,


(k)
preventing, reducing or mitigating the effects of disruption or
destruction of plant life or animal life,


(l)
protecting or restoring activities of Parliament, of the Scottish
Parliament, of the Northern Ireland Assembly or of the National
Assembly for Wales, or

(m)
protecting or restoring the performance of public functions.


(3)
Emergency regulations may make provision of any kind that could be made by
Act of Parliament or by the exercise of the Royal Prerogative; in particular,


30

regulations may—


(a)
confer a function on a Minister of the Crown, on the Scottish Ministers,


on the National Assembly for Wales, on a Northern Ireland


department, on a coordinator appointed under section 24 or on any


other specified person (and a function conferred may, in particular,

35

be—


(i)
a power, or duty, to exercise a discretion;


(ii)
a power to give directions or orders, whether written or oral);


(b)
provide for or enable the requisition or confiscation of property (with
or without compensation);

40

(c)
provide for or enable the destruction of property, animal life or plant


life (with or without compensation);


(d)
prohibit, or enable the prohibition of, movement to or from a specified
place;


(e)
require, or enable the requirement of, movement to or from a specified

45

place;


(f)
prohibit, or enable the prohibition of, assemblies of specified kinds, at
specified places or at specified times

8O
 
#11
Holy sh!t.

I've never done this before, but I might just write to my MP. Not that I think it'll do much good, but I'm otherwise stumped on what to do.

Any suggestions?

Armed revolution aside, that is...

IF
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#12
1
Meaning of “emergency”


(1)
In this Part “emergency” means an event or situation which threatens serious damage to—

(a)
human welfare in a place in the United Kingdom,

(b)
the environment of a place in the United Kingdom, or

(c)
the security of the United Kingdom or of a place in the United Kingdom.


(2)
For the purposes of subsection (1)(a) an event or situation threatens damage to human welfare only if it involves, causes or may cause—

(a)
loss of human life,

(b)
human illness or injury,

(c)
homelessness,

(d)
damage to property,

(e)
disruption of a supply of money, food, water, energy or fuel,

(f)
disruption of an electronic or other system of communication,

(g)
disruption of facilities for transport, or

(h)
disruption of services relating to health.


(3)
For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) an event or situation threatens damage to the environment only if it involves, causes or may cause—


(a)
contamination of land, water or air with—

(i)
harmful biological, chemical or radio-active matter, or

(ii)
oil,

(b)
flooding, or

(c)
disruption or destruction of plant life or animal life.


(4)
For the purposes of subsection (1)(c) the following threaten damage to security—

(a)
war or armed conflict, and

(b)
terrorism, within the meaning given by section 1 of the Terrorism Act 2000 (c. 11).


(5)
A Minister of the Crown, or, in relation to Scotland, the Scottish Ministers, may by order—

(a)
provide that a specified event or situation, or class of event or situation, is to be treated as falling, or as not falling, within any of paragraphs (a) to (c) of subsection (1);

(b)
amend subsection (2) so as to provide that in so far as an event or situation involves or causes disruption of a specified supply, system, facility or service—

(i)
it is to be treated as threatening damage to human welfare, or

(ii)
it is no longer to be treated as threatening damage to human welfare.


(6)
The event or situation mentioned in subsection (1) may occur or be inside or outside the United Kingdom.



Lets take it to the extreme.

Bliar is on another of his freebie holidays when hears that an event on a foreign stockmarket (Subsection 6) will affect one of his offshore bank accounts, (Subsection 2 (e)) and thereby future lifestyle and welfare. (Subsection 1(a))

Answer: declare a state of emergency in the UK.

Welcome to the Third Way, the eternal presidency of Tone in Bliarland.
(Assuming he gets cloning sorted too.)
 
#13
Welcome to the Third Way
That was what Mussolini called fascism in the thirties!!!!

From www.wordiq.com:
The term was used by Benito Mussolini to describe fascism as an alternative to communism and democracy
As for TCB and his current ideas wasn’t there some political drama in the eighties about a radical labour politician who was likely to get elected and go over to the Russians or something? Can’t remember the bloody name. Anyway the thing ended with the static of radio conversations, with the inference that the military had held a coup.

Maybe some thought for the future. :twisted:
 
#15
Maybe....

The Lords will chuck this Bill at short notice, using the cunning notion that if the Parliament Act is likely to be employed to force the foxhunting bill through, it is unlikely to be used (even by this shower) to force through the Civil Contingencies Bill.

Hopefully, this would see this Bill stalled this side of a general election.

Yes, it is dangerous because of the frightening prerogative powers that it allows the Nazis access to, but not much use as a tool of general repression because of the general sh!t state of the Armed Forces, police and criminal justice system that would be required to enforce it.

The mention of Cromwell earlier is most apt (although at least he had the b@lls to actually shut down parliament rather than rely on the back door method - and he looked after the Army!) as the British people have a longstanding tradition of defending ancient (and modern) liberties and the primacy of an elected government.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#16
Rudolph_Hucker said:
human welfare in a place in the United Kingdom
Does that now mean that the threat posed to health and safety in the playground means conker playing could be termed a national emergency :?: :D
:lol: :lol: :lol:

If you're a minister and you choose to interpret the Bill in that way, then yes ! :lol: :lol: :D :D :) :) :? :? 8O 8O :evil: :evil: :( :( :cry: :cry:
 
#17
stoatman said:
No, we're not talking about Patriot Act II, or anything else that might be
going on in the US. What we're talking about is powers far in excess of
what the US govt could grant itself, due to their constitutional
safeguards. We're talking about the innocuous-sounding Civil
Contingencies Bill, from Britain.
I'm pretty sure they're only updating legislation brought out just before World War 2. Isn't there something in this new legislation about black helicopters and men in black suits (MiB's)? :roll:
 
#18
Was talking about this with my dad last night - he was around in the 30s.
His initial reaction was disbelief that anything like I was describing would have got through without some commentary on the news.

So, having dug up a link to the Civil Contingencies Secretariat (even the name sounds somehow chilling!) website, got him to read through. HE WAS NOT WORRIED! Assured me, with the wisdom of age, that such powers could never be used for bad in this country because.....

1) we do not have the civil discontent which led to Hitler's rise
2) they do not have the organisations in place to enforce such things against the population (Hitler Youth etc)
3) The regular services (from Armed forces through Police etc) would refuse to accept orders against their own people under an act such as this.
4) In any case, people would never let it happen again. This was his strongest assertion.

Having resisted my initial urge to dismiss him as senile, got to thinking....

We DO have civil discontent but, whereas hitler used that to gain power, in our times it has bred the political apathy which allows this sort of Bill to slip through unnoticed.

True, there is no Bliar Youth but, given the unhappiness many people (especially the young) feel about immigration and related matters, how long would it take to form such a group. Only have to fund a few "community groups" to help the neighbourhood ....

His fourth point, I'd like to think he's got right. Certainly, what I see on this board suggests there would be resistance. But, at the end of the day, it's a huge jump for a Serviceman from "I don't like this order" (especially when it wouldn't be as blatant as "go to such-and-such a place and shoot anyone who moves - just enforcing a curfew here or assisting an enforced evacuation there would do). Once the first shot got fired (probably by some hacked off civvy), it would get a whole lot easier. As for the Police, I don't think they'd be so much trouble. Just give 'em immunity from prosecution & let the years of being hog-tied do the rest......

Finally, "People wouldn't allow it....". Probably true that those who were there and remember what was done would not allow it. But they're all in their 70s+ - not much of a revolutionary force! And the rest of us? We read about it, we listen to them and we try to understand. But do we really? Can we really imagine from second (or third) hand memories? How many times in human history have people said "never again" with one voice? I'm worried, but somewhere deep inside I can't really believe the danger because "it could never happen again / over here".

Maybe I should start believing.
 
#19
scalieback said:
stoatman said:
No, we're not talking about Patriot Act II, or anything else that might be
going on in the US. What we're talking about is powers far in excess of
what the US govt could grant itself, due to their constitutional
safeguards. We're talking about the innocuous-sounding Civil
Contingencies Bill, from Britain.
I'm pretty sure they're only updating legislation brought out just before World War 2. Isn't there something in this new legislation about black helicopters and men in black suits (MiB's)? :roll:
Have a look at the repeals:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200304/ldbills/077/04077.27-31.html#RepealSchedulehrb

Schedule 3


Section 32


Repeals and Revocations


Short title and chapter

Repeal or revocation


The Emergency Powers Act

The whole Act.


1920 (c. 55).

10

The Emergency Powers Act

The whole Act.


(Northern Ireland) 1926 (c. 8).


The Air-Raid Precautions Act

The whole Act.


(Northern Ireland) 1938 (c. 26


(N.I.)).

15

The Civil Defence Act 1939

The whole Act.


(c. 31).


The Civil Defence Act

The whole Act.


(Northern Ireland) 1939 (c. 15


(N.I.)).

20

The Civil Defence Act 1948

The whole Act.


(c. 5).


The Civil Defence Act

The whole Act.


(Northern Ireland) 1950 (c. 11


(N.I.)).

25

The Criminal Justice Act

In Schedule 2, the entry relating to the Civil


(Northern Ireland) 1953 (c. 14

Defence Act (Northern Ireland) 1950.


(N.I.)).


The Civil Defence (Armed

The whole Act.


Forces) Act 1954 (c. 66).

30

The Defence Contracts Act 1958

In section 6(1), in the definition of “defence


(c. 38).

materials”, paragraph (b).


The Town and Country

In paragraph 2 of Schedule 4, the entry relating


Planning (Scotland) Act 1959

to the Civil Defence Act 1948.


(c. 70).

35

The Emergency Powers Act

Section 1.


1964 (c. 38).


The Lands Tribunal and

In Schedule 1, the entry relating to the Civil


Compensation Act (Northern

Defence Act (Northern Ireland) 1939.


Ireland) 1964 (c. 29 (N.I.)).

40

The Emergency Powers

The whole Act.


(Amendment) Act (Northern


Ireland) 1964 (c. 34 (N.I.)).








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Civil Contingencies Bill
Schedule 3 — Repeals and Revocations

30




Short title and chapter

Repeal or revocation


The Police (Scotland) Act 1967

In Schedule 4, the entry relating to the Civil


(c. 77).

Defence Act 1948.


The Public Expenditure and

Section 4.


Receipts Act 1968 (c. 14).

5

The Land Charges Act 1972

In Schedule 2, paragraph 1(f).


(c. 61).


The Local Government Act 1972

Section 138(1A).


(c. 70).


The Drainage (Northern

In Schedule 8, paragraphs 3 and 4.

10

Ireland) Order 1973 (S.I.


1973/69 (N.I. 1)).


The Statute Law (Repeals) Act

In Schedule 2, in Part II, the entry relating to the


1976 (c. 16).

Civil Defence Act 1939.


The Road Traffic (Northern

Article 31G(5)(c).

15

Ireland) Order 1981 (S.I.


1981/154 (N.I. 1)).


The Civil Aviation Act 1982

In Schedule 2, paragraph 2.


(c. 16).


The Criminal Justice Act 1982

Section 41.

20

(c. 48).


The Police and Criminal

In Schedule 2, the entry relating to section 2 of


Evidence Act 1984 (c. 60).

the Emergency Powers Act 1920.


The Fines and Penalties

Article 12.


(Northern Ireland) Order

25

1984 (S.I. 1984/703 (N.I. 3)).


The Civil Protection in

The whole Act.


Peacetime Act 1986 (c. 22).


The Road Traffic Act 1988

Section 65A(5)(c).


(c. 52).

30

The Water Act 1989 (c. 15).

In Schedule 25, paragraph 1(4).


The Electricity Act 1989 (c. 29).

In Schedule 16, paragraph 1(3) and paragraph 4.


The Police and Criminal

In Schedule 2, the entry relating to the


Evidence (Northern Ireland)

Emergency Powers Act (Northern Ireland)


Order 1989 (S.I. 1989/1341

1926.

35

(N.I. 12)).


The Local Government Finance

In Schedule 13, paragraph 6.


Act 1992 (c. 14).


The Local Government etc.

In Schedule 13, paragraph 24.


(Scotland) Act 1994 (c. 39).

40

The Gas Act 1995 (c. 45).

In Schedule 4, paragraph 2(5).


The Police Act 1997 (c. 50).

In Schedule 9, paragraphs 2 and 17.


The Greater London Authority

Section 330.


Act 1999 (c. 29).


The Transport Act 2000 (c. 38).

In Schedule 5, paragraph 3.

45







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Civil Contingencies Bill
Schedule 3 — Repeals and Revocations

31




Short title and chapter

Repeal or revocation


The Civil Defence (Grant) Act

The whole Act.


2002 (c. 5).

Any more scare mongering? 8O 8O :?: :lol: :lol:
 
#20
scalieback said:
I'm pretty sure they're only updating legislation brought out just before World War 2. Isn't there something in this new legislation about black helicopters and men in black suits (MiB's)? :roll:
No, this goes far in excess of the earlier legislation (Emergency Powers Acts 1920 and 1964 and Civil Protection in Peacetime Act 1986, also Civil Defence Act 1948) in all manners - what constitutes an emergency, who can declare one, who can do what once this emergency has been declared.

Full text of previous legislation:
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2003/jun/23civil.htm
http://www.ukresilience.info/legislation/cda1948.htm