Maggei WAS Best PM of 20 C Lefties say so !

#2
Must admit "The Iron Lady" had some balls, all bar the Fcuk around with the Now POLL TAX B0ll0x...
 
#3
IMHO a PM is great if they are perceived as great. If their strength of character and unwavering leadership outweighs the mistakes that they will inevitably make then they leave a legacy of leadership. Churchill and Thatcher were such leaders. Blair is very a strong character but IMHO too untrustworthy.

Best PM of the 20th century? The man who delivered us during our darkest hour.
 
#4
IMHO a PM is great if they are perceived as great. If their strength of character and unwavering leadership outweighs the mistakes that they will inevitably make then they leave a legacy of leadership. Churchill and Thatcher were such leaders. Blair is very a strong character but IMHO too untrustworthy.

Best PM of the 20th century? The man who delivered us during our darkest hour.
 
#6
Fundamentally, nothing wrong with the Poll Tax, my friend.
 
#7
dance_with_the_devil said:
Must admit "The Iron Lady" had some balls, all bar the Fcuk around with the Now POLL TAX B0ll0x...
The cockabout with the poll tax was caused by local councils, they set the rate not centrall govt.
 
#8
Garbage, people look at her reign with rose tinted specs on, and seem to remember it as some kind of golden age.
Selling off public assets, pushing up the national debt, cutting public spending, high unemployment,, the poll tax, dismantling British industry, effectively halving the size of the armed forces blah blah blah.
After enduring her and the tories for amost two decades, and ending with Blair and his cronies its put me of a mind that they're all sh!t.
People tend to forget she was going to be out on her arrse after one term when the Falklands War happened, and she placed back into power on a wave of patriotic fervour.

Mind you, she had more balls than anyone left playing politics today, look at the Tories and Labour now, they sound like each other.,
 
#9
inbredyokel666 said:
Garbage, people look at her reign with rose tinted specs on, and seem to remember it as some kind of golden age.
Selling off public assets, pushing up the national debt, cutting public spending, high unemployment,, the poll tax, dismantling British industry, effectively halving the size of the armed forces blah blah blah.
After enduring her and the tories for amost two decades, and ending with Blair and his cronies its put me of a mind that they're all sh!t.
People tend to forget she was going to be out on her arrse after one term when the Falklands War happened, and she placed back into power on a wave of patriotic fervour.

Mind you, she had more balls than anyone left playing politics today, look at the Tories and Labour now, they sound like each other.,
Like many you forget what went before Maggie. The Labour party had pretty much destroyed the economy, British industry was dying on it's feet because the unions would not allow modernisation, one could go on, but it was a shambles.

Maggie made lots of mistakes but without her we would have sunk without trace. And defence cuts, HAraold and his chums and successors were even better than the Tories at that, and I can remeber trying to explain to my men why the government valued their services so much that they needed housing benefit to pay their married quarter rent.

Peter

PS I have only voted Tory once in the last 30 years and at the time thought it was probably a mistake.
 
#10
maxi_77 said:
Like many you forget what went before Maggie. The Labour party had pretty much destroyed the economy, British industry was dying on it's feet because the unions would not allow modernisation, one could go on, but it was a shambles.

Maggie made lots of mistakes but without her we would have sunk without trace. And defence cuts, HAraold and his chums and successors were even better than the Tories at that, and I can remeber trying to explain to my men why the government valued their services so much that they needed housing benefit to pay their married quarter rent.

Peter

PS I have only voted Tory once in the last 30 years and at the time thought it was probably a mistake.
Good point sir!, But I do remember the strikes and the garbage piles of the seventies, I do remember that Labour were unbeleivably sodding hopeless, and it moulded the Tories response to dealing with the eighties.
It reinforces my point and "strengthens" my apathy on politics....they are all sh!t!
 
#11
Yep, none of them are any good. Could all be sorted at the next election with a little box that says none of the above, perhaps we would get politicians delivering what we want then.
 
#12
inbredyokel666 said:
maxi_77 said:
Like many you forget what went before Maggie. The Labour party had pretty much destroyed the economy, British industry was dying on it's feet because the unions would not allow modernisation, one could go on, but it was a shambles.

Maggie made lots of mistakes but without her we would have sunk without trace. And defence cuts, HAraold and his chums and successors were even better than the Tories at that, and I can remeber trying to explain to my men why the government valued their services so much that they needed housing benefit to pay their married quarter rent.

Peter

PS I have only voted Tory once in the last 30 years and at the time thought it was probably a mistake.
Good point sir!, But I do remember the strikes and the garbage piles of the seventies, I do remember that Labour were unbeleivably sodding hopeless, and it moulded the Tories response to dealing with the eighties.
It reinforces my point and "strengthens" my apathy on politics....they are all sh!t!
I fear we are to blame more than them, HArold of the Gannex got labour into power by offering lots of stuff from the state for free, he then effectively put taxes for the low paid up, in in fact created many many more tax payers to pay for all this free stuff, so yes by the end of the seventies people were ready for a change and bought into the tax cut concept, which was needed, but that had to be paid for so labour promised to spend more and surprise surprise taxes go up again, and the people have dicovered they were voting for spin. We get who we vote for and they offer what they think we will support, if we have crap polititians it is because we chose them.

Peter
 
#13
the_guru said:
Fundamentally, nothing wrong with the Poll Tax, my friend.
Fundamentallly, fcuk all right with it either...
http://www.caliach.com/paulr/news/polltax/copy.html

The Poll Tax Riots, as they became known, were major acts of civil disobedience carried out in England. They were in protest against the poll tax introduced by Margaret Thatcher and her government.
 
#14
dance_with_the_devil said:
the_guru said:
Fundamentally, nothing wrong with the Poll Tax, my friend.
Fundamentallly, fcuk all right with it either...
Really?

So do you think that it is fair that an old couple in a reasonable sized house pay exactly the same amount as the family next door with 10 or more people living there. Poll Tax was based on the individual paying an amount. It was democratic. It was brought in the wrong way and suffered from a negative spin from the press, at a time when Thatchers poularity was on the wane. It is still the most inherently fair method of charging people for local resources.
 
#15
I remember being in a very poor family in a lower end council estate being told that someone like Elton John would be paying the same poll tax as me...that seemed fair.
 
#16
inbredyokel666 said:
I remember being in a very poor family in a lower end council estate being told that someone like Elton John would be paying the same poll tax as me...that seemed fair.
I have lived in many places around the world and have yet to find one where everyone is satisfied with their local coucil tax, let alone their state and federal tax. Elton John may well pay the same rate of council tax however he is also probably paying a substancially greater income tax.
You might feel that a more equitable method is to tax those living in higher value properties (like Elton) a greater tax. The problem is that the house your family has lived in for generations can easily get dragged up in value due to the buying and selling behaviour in your area. Tough.

On Maggie. I seem to remember a pretty substantial pay rise when she came in however my best memory was of the sheer relief that at last someone was going to take the unions on and stop the country sliding into total decline. Those unfashionable bits are so easy to ignore don't you think?
 
#17
inbredyokel666 said:
I remember being in a very poor family in a lower end council estate being told that someone like Elton John would be paying the same poll tax as me...that seemed fair.
Of course the poll tax was only supposed to cover a relatively small proportion of local government expenditure and was based on the concept that every one should pay something, which prevents polititions promising favours to low or nil payers which meant almost all council tennants and their families all sorts of goodies that some one else will pay for.

Property based taxation is equally unfair as it takes no account of ability to pay, which is why a local income or sales tax would be fairer, either that or fund it all from central government which of course removes aspects of local discretion and democracy.

The poll tax was a reasonable theory but a crap implementation.

It also showed that the mob can still rule even today. perhaps not such a good thing or something to be proud of.

Peter
 
#18
Soz,
Been away, filling in my Tax return....He He.
The point is at that time in the early eighties, people were'n't prepared to pay hence all the build up to the riots in London, and demonstrations in Scotland and many other places around the country.

Even now aren't we as a nation the most heavily Taxed country in Europe?

The Poll Tax levied on every individual, without reference to income or property. Being simple to administer, it was among the earliest sorts of tax (introduced in England in 1379), but because of its indiscriminate nature (it is a regressive tax, in that it falls proportionately more heavily on poorer people) it has often proved unpopular.

Oh well,
When my time is up, im off to where the sun shines and the beer flows freely...
 
#19
I'm a great fan of Maggie but the poll tax? My uncle had 4 adults in his household so 4 sets of poll tax. I remember with great glee his row with the council that he should have 4 wheelie bins because he was paying for them. The trouble with local taxes is the number of non jobs they pay for. Pity Mags didn't sort that.
 
#20
the_guru said:
dance_with_the_devil said:
the_guru said:
Fundamentally, nothing wrong with the Poll Tax, my friend.
Fundamentallly, fcuk all right with it either...
Really?

So do you think that it is fair that an old couple in a reasonable sized house pay exactly the same amount as the family next door with 10 or more people living there. Poll Tax was based on the individual paying an amount. It was democratic. It was brought in the wrong way and suffered from a negative spin from the press, at a time when Thatchers poularity was on the wane. It is still the most inherently fair method of charging people for local resources.
The money was not necessarily allocated to local resources, this goes on to this day.
My unfair memory of the poll tax was that as the camp was on a ward boundary, the Singlies on the block paid less than the pads or the officers mess. This was NOT fair.
:evil:
 

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